$$Bcm142 Move 141 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O W O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 141 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O W O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'll admit, I'm not too confident that I have the plan, here. However, it looks like we're going to want the liberties from this move for the race ahead. If black plays here, the fight looks significantly harder, so I think it's necessary.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:20 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Younger brother is totally on the wrong path. We can't win the liberties race. Sooner or later he is going to see this. Maybe then he will play a big point below. The worst that he has done is burn a big ko threat. It is sente. ( 50+ point swing if they ignore it ) So the worst that happens is that we lose a ko threat. It costs two points to change it. Is a ko threat worth two points? I think not. Therefore...
I approve.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:29 am
by Joaz Banbeck
daniel_the_smith wrote:Didn't Violence's correction cost 4? Since I hadn't previously corrected that move?
Ahh, you're right. So it is white 71, black 62?
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:30 am
by daniel_the_smith
Did not expect that move to get approved...
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:41 am
by jts
Damn, I was gleefully thinking for a second that I wasn't the only little brother who needs to be corrected... but this can't be anything! We have six liberties and they have four. It's keshier than herpes.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:47 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
BTW, if it makes sense for me to let a move slide rather than give up two points, it is doubly true for Shapenaji, for it costs us four points if he corrects. I trust younger brotherto see the light real soon.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:03 pm
by shapenaji
Approved.
as Joaz said, not worth changing
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:29 pm
by jts
$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X B C X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X B C X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Rightttttttttttt.
$$Bcm143 Move 143 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . 9 . 2 X 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X 5 6 O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X 4 X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X 7 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O 8 X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O 0 X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm143 Move 143 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . 9 . 2 X 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X 5 6 O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X 4 X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X 7 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O 8 X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O 0 X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I still suspect these would be better used as ko threats... but I am now a little bit worried, since I'm now reading that we only just win the semeai. Can they start a ko with C19? If so, we're in deep trouble. It may make sense to respond to E19 with J16.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:21 am
by daniel_the_smith
Approved.
ShapeNaji didn't think it was worth 4 points to fix this?
We win the race every way I read it. I don't see why squeezing us now would be worth more than the ko threats they're losing.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:52 pm
by Violence
Approved
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:04 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Count liberties...please, god, make him count liberties...
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:44 am
by Chew Terr
$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . W O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . W O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The proper point is either here or one above, I think, and I like this more. Falsifying eyes for fun... and profit? This prevents an eye above or below, keeping it a liberty race between b's big group here and the group we have to the left. We do not have a ton of liberties...
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:17 am
by Joaz Banbeck
I don't approve.
$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B64 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . C O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B64 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . C O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In its simplest form, the libertes race looks like this:
$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . 9 5 X X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X 2 W O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X 3 X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X 7 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O 8 O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O 4 X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O 6 X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . 9 5 X X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X 2 W O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X 3 X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X 7 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O 8 O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O 4 X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O 6 X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
They can tenuki to the big play at 1 at the bottom, and then still come back and win the liberties race. ( There are more complicated variations, but those don't work either. )
Although, in Chew's defense, the dual approvals last move can be misleading.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:45 am
by Magicwand
for obs only:
in my opinion it is sente. there was no need to correct that move..
$$Wcm143 = $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . 6 . 1 X X 2 X 5 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X 4 W O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X 3 X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X 0 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O 7 O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O 9 X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm143 = $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . 6 . 1 X X 2 X 5 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X 4 W O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X 3 X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X 0 X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O 7 O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O 9 X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:59 am
by shapenaji
Not Approved
$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B65 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . W . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm142 Move 143 W68 B65 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . W . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Joaz is right that the top just wastes threats, but his move on the bottom isn't ambitious enough imo... If we want to use those threats, we have to stretch further
= 