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Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=10970

Page 6 of 11

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:41 pm
by emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X B O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:43 pm
by shapenaji
Can we shortcut to this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 X B O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 1 X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 3 O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:55 pm
by emerus
shapenaji wrote:Can we shortcut to this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a 2 X B O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 1 X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 3 O O b . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Is 'b' even worth considering? I'm for playing 'a' but don't want to doom us all. :twisted:

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:10 pm
by Violence
Do we block the outside or take the corner?

I like blocking the outside, seeing as white needs to add another move to take the corner, allowing us to target another weakness.

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:50 pm
by shapenaji
emerus wrote:
Is 'b' even worth considering? I'm for playing 'a' but don't want to doom us all. :twisted:
I think "a" is a bit aji-keshi. It induces him to fix his shape a bit. I have the same reaction with "b". Taking one of those two points is big, but white has so many weaknesses and we have sente, I want to do more than just play a big point.

My hierarchy of plays:

Did my opponent ignore an urgent move?
Do I need to play an urgent move?
Are there any big points?

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:00 pm
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
This is still real, right? When do you wanna pull the trigger?

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:12 pm
by emerus
Violence wrote:
*snip*
When do you wanna pull the trigger?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I was going to question if profit black would gain from splitting is clearly worth it. (It probably is) It also protects from white fixing and threatening something at 'a'.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 4 O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Is this what we're looking for?

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:24 am
by Pippen
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X W O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:05 am
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Yeah I think we just pull the trigger.

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:14 am
by Pippen
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X W . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Violence honors his nickname^^. White needs to play aggressive here, enuff is enuff. Again: If someone has CS or Zen, then bring us their evalutation and suggested continuations.

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:50 pm
by Loons
Isn't this game now just about how well Pippen can parse and react to his opponents' stated intents?

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:13 pm
by skydyr
Loons wrote:
Isn't this game now just about how well Pippen can parse and react to his opponents' stated intents?
Well, the premise was always a bit presumptuous. After all, one could just put the position into something like crazystone and run a large number of playouts to get some sort of 5/6d-ish opinion, which is about as good as one can aspire to here. Just getting an answer like that isn't as fun, though.

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:23 pm
by Pippen
This is not only a game - it's a defense of my fuseki dogma that you not only can split immediately if you want to but even let the split become weak. When you look at the game moves 1-6 you'll know what I mean. I find it fascinating to test it against other players. I also think that this kind of (antiorthodox) opening and playing style might be humans last chance against Bots one day.

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:28 pm
by Solomon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:46 pm
by Pippen
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
My answer is 1 and Black's answer 2 is too obvious, so I'll shortcut if nobody complains. Next one is my marked move.
All times are UTC-07:00
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