Life In 19x19

Hi Ed,

I was not sure to be able to keep the pressure on the K4-M4 group with another fight

I wanted to be solid to be able to chase the white group while building the right side.

- is this bad? If I play L8 he can just cut me right?

- yeah... no comments

This was not to push without cutting, it was to prevent Q15.

104 not sure, you're probably right that it doesn't do much.

110 - 112 , yeah once again you're right

Thank you for all the comments

Bill,

The score is wrong.

I think it is the game info that are wrong. If the komi is 0.5 the score is B+1.5 right?

Laerthd wrote: Bill,

The score is wrong.

I think it is the game info that are wrong. If the komi is 0.5 the score is B+1.5 right?

Take a look at the final diagram.

Bill Spight wrote: Take a look at the final diagram.

I am looking but can't see anything wrong
edit: Or do you mean I won only by 0.5 because of R13?

Hi Laerthd,

This was not to push without cutting, it was to prevent Q15.

The push at R16 (self-reducing libs) can be OK in some special cases, but not here. ( There was a typo in the original post 74 ).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X X O O . . |
$$ . X O . X O . . |
$$ X . O . X . . . |
$$ . . . . 3 2 O . |
$$ . . O . X 4 1 8 |
$$ . . . . . 5 6 . |
$$ . . . . X . 7 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

( At these levels, quite often people push at R16 as a bad habit. )
Also, W cannot wedge at Q15 anyway ( there's no wedge for W ):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X X O O . . |
$$ . X O . X O . . |
$$ X . O . X 4 5 . |
$$ . . . 3 1 2 O . |
$$ . . O . X 6 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Hey Ed,

I must confess that I played it because it looked like a cool move higher level player would make.


For the game of today, a win against a 12k+. I think I was lucky to win because not everything I played should have worked. Anyway I tried reading every move but I should concentrate to improve my reading because I'm always afraid I misread something.

Laerthd wrote:

Bill Spight wrote: Take a look at the final diagram.

I am looking but can't see anything wrong
edit: Or do you mean I won only by 0.5 because of R13?

Well, I didn't actually count. One look and I could see that a protective play was missing. It should have been played before counting.

Years ago I considered writing an endgame book aimed at players at your level. In preparation I took a look at a lot of those games. I realized that the best advice I could give is this:

Always fill the dame.

The players overlooked protective plays right and left. Most were not as obvious as this one, but they are frequently overlooked at your level. Filling the dame would have helped the players to score their games correctly, and it would also have opened up possibilities for big swings.

This also happens with stronger players, although not as often. Erik van der Werf found that about 2% of 5 kyu games were misscored. When I was around that level I found that often I got results different from the official scores of pro games when I tried to score the final diagrams. It was a challenge for me to find the necessary protective plays. If you want to improve your reading, always fill the dame.

Hi Laerthd,

I must confess that I played it because it looked like a cool move higher level player would make.

A quick search for this local shape in a pro game database:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . O X X O . . |
$$ . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . X . 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

The most popular move is the block-attach , at 794 cases, 84%.
The rarest move (not shown) is very exceptional, only 1 instance.

The push at R16: zero cases, 0%.

I was bothered by the game of post 65. Ed already pointed several mistakes but black having so many point in the left side was not discussed.

I looked back at the game and I think my mistake was on move 44 with respect to this side. Here is how I think I should have played

If you want to invade the left side c8 is a standard place. c10 is a move weaker players seem to like a lot and is usually bad so I've pretty much removed it from my repertoire (perhaps there are rare occurences it is a good move when I dismiss it; note I consider a symmetrical position like from san ren sei different to this where they have a 3 space 4th to 3rd line extension with approached corner beyond, there attach makes more sense). Also in your first variation black d11 is weak: he should save the important cutting stone (probably b9). And then a9 is wrong and the 2nd variation is bonkers (both players make huge mistakes). Your later long variations also have many mistakes: I suggest you read/investigate with greater breadth and less depth (it's better to have a sequence of 5 sensible moves than 20 silly ones).

Let me highlight one thing that Uberdude said.

Uberdude wrote:I suggest you read/investigate with greater breadth and less depth (it's better to have a sequence of 5 sensible moves than 20 silly ones).

Hear, hear!

As Uberdude also said, C-08 is standard for an invasion. However, Black can reply at D-08 and let White live or connect in gote in exchange for a wall. Then Black's floating stones on the 8th rank in the center would not only have become difficult to attack, they might help Black to build a framework in the center.

That indicates that an invasion would be premature. Now is the time to make use of the White thickness in the bottom right and attack the floating Black stones. H-08 looks like a good spot.

Hi Uberdude,
I thought of C10 because since black is already strong it made sense to attach to him and see what can happen. But now that you pointed out C8 I see that black maybe isn't that strong yet so a farther approach is better. Anyway, thanks for the comments, I'll look more seriously in this variation.

Bill,
I don't remember exactly but I think this was my idea to attack these stones but as I said, I don't think I can kill them. Or is the idea to attack from H8, gain strength and then attack the left side?

Laerthd wrote:Bill,
I don't remember exactly but I think this was my idea to attack these stones but as I said, I don't think I can kill them. Or is the idea to attack from H8, gain strength and then attack the left side?

The main idea — by which I mean my main idea — is to try to keep Black's center stones from becoming an asset, or much of one. Attacking them is unlikely to produce any territory directly, to speak of, or even much strength. But they are Black's only weakness at this point, and if they simply became a strength, the game would very likely be over. An immediate invasion of the left side, with the likely result that White lives in gote in exchange for a wall, would allow Black to use that wall and his center stones to form a framework, and White could kiss this game goodbye.

After a quick survey reveals that if everything that even looks something like territory becomes territory, then Black is around 20 points ahead on the board. At this point in the game, around 12-13 points would be more like it, to give even chances of winning. And that means that White is running about 7-8 points behind. My guess is that Black has maybe a 55% chance of winning. Things may be a bit worse for White, given how thin the top side framework is.

One general plan would be for White to develop and strengthen the top side. But then Black would develop the left side, with help from his center stones, and White would be playing perpetual catch-up, I think. OC, I could be wrong, but as a practical matter, I think that White has to invade the left side. And he has to prepare the way first, by attacking Black's center stones.

Hi Bill,

try to keep Black's center stones from becoming an asset

I think this is something I struggle to keep in mind when I play. I almost always think of a move because it gives me something but almost always miss the moves that prevent my opponent to get something big. In the yose for instance, I'll look for my sente moves but when they are finished I never look for the move to prevent a sente move from my opponent. I'll try to keep it in mind.

In the meantime, I've searched for information about invasions and I've find this post from Uberdude that link to his lecture on the san ren sei where there is an example on how to live under the enemy stones (althought the situation is different).

For the game of today, I lost against a 12k+. What worries me is that I didn't see that I could kill the group on the lower right even after the end of the game. I only noticed it because I wanted to know the score at some point and the score estimator marked it dead. I still don't understand how I didn't even think about cutting this group. Apart from that I let one group die but it was already too late to win.

I've played a game against a 5k IGS, lost it but it was closer than expected.
Here it is with my review.
Overall I think we both played really badly so I am happy for the score but not for the game.

Game of the day, once again with a 5k+.
Lost by 6.5. Mainly because on the error in the beginning of the game I think.