109. Loons vs. Kirby

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Puppycakes
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Puppycakes »

Chew Terr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . O . . b . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . . 2 O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

While I also favor black overall, I don't like this last move much. It can force a dicey fight if white plays at 'a', for example. While I would have tenuki'ed, probably by jumping to P9 (c), if black wanted a local play, I prefer 'b'.


I don't think that the fight is all that dicey.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 2 . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . O 8 6 4 3 X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . . 1 O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Loons
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Loons »

It's gonna be a little while before my move. Much as I would like to draw an arrow pointing downwards, L4 already ruins it a bit, so I need to work at alternatives.
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Sure thing, Loons. I do not know of the arrow talk that you speak of, but it does not seem like it requires any action on my part.
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O O O X 5 X . |
$$ . O O O O 6 O O X . |
$$ X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]

A grim portent.
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Ah, without L4 it looks like an arrow shape, you mean. Interesting observation.
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

So I'm hoping to come out of the bottom right area with sente. If that happens, I'll decide between attacking his stone on the right, or maybe doing something on the top. I'm not quite sure, yet.

I also would like to do something about the open spots that are on the left. I guess that's what I get for playing high. At least I get influence from my stones on the left. I am still working on understanding how to work with influence. Hopefully I can make the stones on the left useful.

I'm kind of worried about my progress in go, lately, too. I think that I just have to study more. It is hard work to study every day, and sometimes my mind gets tired. I must get past this, though. If I want to progress, I have to not be lazy. But I am lazy sometimes.

On that note, it'd be nice if I could live forever. I have a set amount of time in life. I can spend some of it as an investment toward the future, and some time for immediate benefit. When I am being lazy, I am not investing well toward the future. But I also have a limited time on this earth... So that's somewhat concerning, too. How should I invest in the time that I have left?

I guess I'm not that old, so I don't need to think about that kind of stuff that much - but I still do, sometimes...

Well, I guess this is sort of a tangent.

Back to the game... I feel OK about this board position. Even if I don't get sente in the bottom right, white can't do that much. I feel like I have good compensation. I hope that he gets worried and makes an overplay. That's what I'm trying not to do with my game against Marcus. I think I'm behind in that game. I don't want to make an overplay, though, because then he can get more out of it, maybe. Maybe if Loons makes an overplay here, I can benefit more from it.

I guess we'll just see what happens.
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

I wonder where he will play.
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . 3 . . . O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Eh, 46 was over-aggressive and 47 was a tesuji. What can ya do.


Sorry about the wait, I totally lost my gumption. Or maybe I read a kill on half your stones!
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

I guess I'd better not make an instinctive response if you've read a way to kill half of my stones...

His move is unexpected, but it doesn't seem that bad to me. It somewhat takes away from the presence I have on the left side of the board...
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Scratch that... Instinctive response it is. I am too impatient.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . 4 . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess I don't think there's much to think about here. I don't think the situation on the right changes, so I should keep an equitable balance in the area that he played. There's no need to play too much in an area he is ignoring.
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Magicwand »

FOR OBS ONLY:
Kirby is ignoring "Pillar Stone" concept!!!
even if Kirby dont answer last move there is nothing white can do to gain anything.
Kirby should have taken the PILLAE STONE!!!
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The greater the unknown"
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Loons »

I, on the other hand, have no compunction about spending weeks contemplating my reply (to eventually miss some tesuji or other anyway).

Odd time for a territorial move I would have thought, but what is my opinion worth these days... I want to resolve the right and middle together somehow, but I also want to play next on top. I guess his move makes my central position a little more precarious. Back to the drawing board.


Edit:
Now I'm profoundly nervous, thanks Magicwand :P

Counting should dictate your strategy. I'm going to count that moyo as half and top right ko as half.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | w w w w w . . . . . . . . . b b b . . |
$$ | w w w w w . . . . . . . . . b b b . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X . . b . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | b b b X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | b b b . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | b b b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . 4 . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | w w . O . O . . . b X X X O X X O w O |
$$ | w w w w w . . . . b b b b X X . O O w |
$$ | w w w w . . . . b b b b b . . . . w w |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black 27 White 25, white 1 captive, 6.5 komi. Black has much better potential. White has sente. (to be honest I was quite relieved about Kirby's last move, which does say something bad about my position).

So... my sente should limit Kirby's potential as a higher priority than building points. I will share some of the moves I'm throwing around in my head later.

After our exchange I have a much better feeling locally, I should have played it earlier. Still can't p6 - just too heavy. So, looking at something like P7/Q7 or more loosely O10 for my sacrifice tactics (to force Kirby to capture while I gain position outside).
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 5 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I dunno.

Edit; I guess I should let you in on my keen decision-making process.
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . . 6 . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, the situation on the right has changed, now. Before, it'd be somewhat easy to run with my right group if it were cut off. Now, it's more difficult. With this move, I secure my stones easily, and he still has little territory. I just have to keep his central influence in check, and there's no problem.

I considered the following move, but rejected it due to the marked intersections that white could use as forcing moves:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . B . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 7 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . . X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I plan to invade the left.

Edit: Some reflection brings to light that while I opened on a 3-3 and territorial 3-4 and kirby opened with a fourth line moyo, it is me with half my stones in the centre. What can ya do, eh.
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