dankenzon wrote:gowan wrote:I'd be interested to know how the new book by Takao compares with Jungsuk in Our Time by Seo Bong-soo?
Quite different aim for the books. The Junsuk one focuses only in few lines of some josekis giving some "new" moves (now not so new) while the Takao volumes a wide horizon of possible joseki.
Thanks so much for the info Dankenzon. Gowan's question has been hanging around for quite some time. I have been curious about the answer ever since the question was first posted. Here is another question:
"How does Takao fit into the currently available English language joseki literautre?" (Footnote 1)
The above question is related to the question that you asked, Gowan. I will take a stab at an answer. I would be very interested in any insights that you, Gowan, or others, might have.
My first observation is that the Takao book is addressed to kyu-level players. The next two paragraphs explain what I mean by that.
The operative word in the title is of Takao's book is "Basic". These are "basic", in the sense of "elementary", josekis. In other words, joseki that provide worthwhile study for kyu players who have "plateaued" and now need to do some study to be able to advance to the next rank. I am a single digit kyu (sdk) myself, so when I say "kyu" I primarily mean sdk's. I suspect that KGS players weaker than 13k would not profit much from studying Takao's book.
Takao's book will be useful to many one dan players. Especially, those who have reached dan solely on the basis of reading skills, playing experience, game reviews, and maybe a few lessons from pros. But, most of us have to do some hard-core study before we reach the dan level. In other words, the primary audience is players whose knowledge of joseki is only on the kyu level. I am not qualified to discuss the relevance of Takao's book for 2 dans and above.
In the rest of this post, I will explain a five levels classification system for kyu-level joseki books. Takao's book is a "Level 4" book in this system. "Introduction to the Game of Go" books, which introduce the concept of joseki to the beginner, would be "Level 0" books, so, technically, there are six levels. Hopefully, this classification system will illuminate how Takao fits into the context of the English language joseki literature.
Takao's book is only one level more advanced than Kosugi & Davies' "38 Basic Joseki", although "38 Basic Joseki" itself is already a "Level 3" book. "A Gentle Approach to Joseki" is an example of a Level 2 book. The early chapters of Ishigure's "In the Beginning" give a "Level 1" introduction to joseki, although, the fuseki presented in "In the Beginning" is Level 2 material (Footnote 2). Last time I checked, all three of these books were available on the web, as was the first edition of Takao. (Ishida wrote the first edition of Takao.) The joseki in the Takao edition occur more frequently in today's professional games then do the joseki mentioned in the Ishida edition (Footnote 3).
Every time the "38 Basic Joseki" book mentions says something like "this variation or this joseki is out of scope of this book," you will find it covered in Takao if it is a komuku (3-4) joseki. This was the case for the Ishida book for all joseki in "38 Basic Joseki", whether or not they are komoku joseki. Undoubtedly, this will also be the case for Takao when Volume 2 comes out (Footnote 4).
Takao's "Level 4" book is already quite thick when compared to "38 Basic Joseki". A comprehensive "Level 5" joseki book would be quite think indeed. Perhaps the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica, even if it only treated the most well established joseki in use in professional play. There is no comprehensive Level 5 book in the English language as far as I know. "Level 5" books treat only a small selection of the available joseki.
The two joseki books in the Nihon-Kiin handbook series (Even Game Joseki and Handicap Joseki) my favorites Level 5 books. "Tricks in Joseki" is very good for how to punish moves that deviate from true Joseki (for a few of the more common variations). Though I haven't read it, my guess is that "Bong-soo" is also a Level 5 book.
Footnotes:
(1) Takao should really be called Takao/Powers since the translator, John Powers, made significant improvements to the exposition of the Japanese edition when he translated the book into English. It was a "labor of love", and it shows.
(2) A Classification System for Kyu-level Fuseki Material Illustrated By Examples:
Level 1: "Get Strong at The Opening" by Bozulich
Level 2: "In the Beginning", by Ishigure
Level 3: "Fuseki", a Nihon-Kiin handbook
Level 3: "501 Opening Problems" by Bozulich and Zeijst
Level 4: "A Way of Play for the 21st Century" by Go Seigen
Level 5: "The Chinese Opening, the sure-win strategy" by Masao Kato
(3) The Ishida edition of the Takao dictionary contains much material that the Takao edition does not. It contains older joseki that are not seen in professional play very often these days. However, they are seen in amateur play, and especially in handicap games (at least on KGS). Also, Ishida has many examples from professional play that illustrate when it is appropriate to use the josekis whereas Takao has no such examples. Hence the Ishida and the Takao editions complement each other. Any kyu player who is also a student of the game will benefit from having both of them.
(4) "38 Basic Joseki" has material that is not in the Takao/Ishida books. For example, there are explanations of when to use the joseki under consideration and when not to use them. These explanations include simple examples constructed to illustrate the points being made in the explanations. The examples from professional games in Ishida have so much going on, that it distracts from understanding the points Ishida is making. In other words, don't throw your copy of "38 Basic Joseki" away! Even if you have mastered the material in Ishida/Takao/Powers.
it's not obvious - even to someone with access to the google search