white is about to lose this game.. i am not sure what will happen...but i have a feeling that he is fighting were he has a weak stone. black is definitly winning now.
Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:59 am
by ez4u
$$Wcm61 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . X 1 X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X , . . O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm61 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . X 1 X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X , . . O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I will go with the atari here. I also considered all of the below points marked "a" through "c". I am not sure what is best. White is troubled by the gap between the two stones on the left and the rest. There are two ways for Black to proceed here. If Black descends at , I am currently thinking that is what I will try. If Black plays the atari underneath at , then breaks into the corner. Or White simply connects against the atari instead and Black has to decide between 5 and "d" on the left.
$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . 5 X 1 X O b . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X d 3 a O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm61 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . X O X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X , 3 . O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I expect below. If I connect, one of two things happen next: Black plays to reduce the liberties on the White stones, accepting that I get the forcing plays and a better shape on the upper side, or...
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 7 4 1 X 6 . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . 5 X O X O . 8 O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X 3 O 2 O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 7 4 1 X 6 . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . 5 X O X O . 8 O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X 3 O 2 O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black plays below, leaving me with four liberties instead of three. However, I have to play and have a worse shape on the top. Black "a" is a forcing play due to the threat to capture two stones, so it is easier for Black to move out with the two marked stones.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . 3 X O X O 4 , O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X . O 2 O B B a . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm61 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 7 4 X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . 5 X O X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X 8 3 6 O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It looks like ko, but I have the threat of just extending and me capturing this is practically sente to kill the other white stones, so perhaps white won't play this way.
$$Wcm61 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 0 . 5 X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . 9 6 X O X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X 8 3 7 O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm61 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . 5 X O X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X 7 O 6 O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I will go with the corner. I think that letting Black have the corner while I end up with a lot of weak points in my center position offers less opportunity in the next phase of the game. Let's see...
Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:32 am
by Jedo
$$Wcm61 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . 8 O X . X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O X O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm71 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X O X . X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O X O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . 1 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
At this point simply patience. Black has to decide what sort of weaknesses to leave behind. Right now I am inclining toward pulling out the G16 stone and having Black capture the H17 stone in gote. But let's see how the corner settles first...
Re: 131. ez4u vs Jedo
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:45 pm
by Jedo
$$Wcm71 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X O X . X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O X O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X 2 . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm71 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 O . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X O X . X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O X O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . O O 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think that forcing play help me a little. Anyway I'm pretty sure I live, but a lot of my territory has been destroyed. Can I still win? White's pretty thin and has to take gote to link up I think, and then I'll have to make good use of my sente
$$Wcm71 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 O . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X O X . X O . . O . a . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O X O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X X 3 . . 7 . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . O O 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . b . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm71 Komi: -15; Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X O X . X O . . O . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O X O X X , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , X O O X . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Let's just see what Black has in mind. BTW, the exchange of for was not a good idea. It eliminated one of Black's liberties and increases the potential that E9 could cause problems in the future.
, 
, I am currently thinking that 
is what I will try. If Black plays the atari underneath at 
, then 
breaks into the corner. Or White simply connects against the atari instead and Black has to decide between 5 and "d" on the left. 
below. If I connect, one of two things happen next:
to reduce the liberties on the White stones, accepting that I get the forcing plays and a better shape on the upper side, or...
and have a worse shape on the top. Black "a" is a forcing play due to the threat to capture two stones, so it is easier for Black to move out with the two marked stones.
leads to an exchange as shown. The question is what to expect next from Black...
for 
was not a good idea. It eliminated one of Black's liberties and increases the potential that E9 could cause problems in the future.