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3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=72

Page 6 of 20

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:07 pm
by Violence
Approved.

EDIT: Er... wait... wrong Malkovich...

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:52 pm
by Jordus
Glad to see my move was approved :lol:

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:37 am
by iSoma
Phelan wrote:iSoma, you're evil! :sad:


What? Because I said you can read it? I did not mean to offend you, if it was for you I am sorry. I did not mean it.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:52 am
by topazg
iSoma wrote:
Phelan wrote:iSoma, you're evil! :sad:


What? Because I said you can read it? I did not mean to offend you, if it was for you I am sorry. I did not mean it.


Hehe, I think it's because you didn't say "yes you can" outside of the hide box, which meant he didn't see it as he didn't want to open that hide box either. On top of that, you clearly quoted him, which makes it even more "Man! I really want to know what he said" :razz:

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:16 am
by Phelan
Yep, that's it. I haven't been opening any hide tags that don't explicitly say I can. And it's driving me crazy wanting to know what's hidden there. :P

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:27 am
by Magicwand
Phelan wrote:Yep, that's it. I haven't been opening any hide tags that don't explicitly say I can. And it's driving me crazy wanting to know what's hidden there. :P


Phelan, you can open this:
i think it will be fun to make our opponet curious.


and this:
wow double hidden comment. that will be double curiocity. :lol:

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:40 am
by Phelan
Very interesting comment, magicwand. :)

No move yet, just my thoughts.
Man, this move is tough. :-?

My first instinct is to cut, put a stone between his two, but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 First instinct is wrong
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It doesn't seem to help white in this area.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Life in gote?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O 4 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O 6 2 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This gives us an eye in gote, if I'm not mistaken,but I don't like it...It seems like I'm missing some sequence around here, although I don't know what.

I'm tempted to play some sente move elsewhere, and let the stronger players sort it out.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Some possible alternatives
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . h X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . f . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . g O . . . e X b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X a . |
$$ | . . . , . . j c . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . d . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . i . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't see anything that doesn't ruin potential, though. :-?

I'm at a loss. I'll look at it after dinner and see if something jumps out.

I'll move after dinner.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:41 am
by iSoma
topazg wrote:
iSoma wrote:
Phelan wrote:iSoma, you're evil! :sad:


What? Because I said you can read it? I did not mean to offend you, if it was for you I am sorry. I did not mean it.


Hehe, I think it's because you didn't say "yes you can" outside of the hide box, which meant he didn't see it as he didn't want to open that hide box either. On top of that, you clearly quoted him, which makes it even more "Man! I really want to know what he said" :razz:


OMG this gets confusing! I mixed up with the meaning of "reading" in the game and "reading" hidden comments and which are hidden and which not. And I wasn't paying attention to the fact that phelan is playing and can't read those hidden comments anyway :lol: Oh well, nevermind. I think it's better to not read them anytime soon, as it could contain spoilers. :roll:

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:58 pm
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 Move 60 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I knew there was a variation I was missing. There's no life in gote there:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Not Life in gote?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O 4 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O 6 O 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O 5 2 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm still not sure as to where to play, but I'll try this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 second eye...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:14 pm
by daniel_the_smith
I'm very interested to see if Violence plays s5 or defends on top somewhere. At first I thought s5 was a no-brainer, but there's lots of places for magicwand to overplay in the top now (and hence ways for me to respond wrong), I think.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:26 pm
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Move 61 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 Move 60 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move reeks of fear, like he's afraid of living. I'll just cut this group off from the center, and then we can start playing on the left and lower left.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:24 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . W . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i think my teammates are doing fine... we are in good position. i will just play solid.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:27 am
by topazg
Here are the moves I want (preferably all at once!)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . W . . O . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O b . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . b X . |
$$ | . . . d . . . . . O . . c O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"e" is big, but not urgent. "d" is big, but not urgent. Not going to play those just yet. At the very least, big not urgent moves should be left to the weaker teammates as obvious moves to play.

"c" I really really want to play, it's big, and even if it isn't sente, it can't be far off as Black S5 is a response that Black will want to settle everything with points. So, I'm tempted to play the "b" points first (bamboo, then push towards the edge probably), as if Black tenukis the danger on the S4 stone, both "a" and "c" are annoying miai moves.

"a" I just really really really like, and it prepares stuff against the top right, and can't be cut off. If Black ignores locally, the temperature of "b" starts to rise a lot, which may make me happier about playing some of my other moves. As a tesuji, the responses depending on what Black plays are also obvious. This is winning hands down for me at the moment.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:16 am
by daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm63 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Great, another unclear choice for me to make...

White appears to be basically alive now. We don't have any groups that need help, but we do have some weaknesses. Here's the moves I'm considering:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm63 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . c . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . d . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O a . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O e . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a) Mostly just points.
b) defends the corner against a white move one space below b.
c & d) defends the corner, emphasis on converting the top side to points.
e) controls the white stone on the bottom.

All these moves are defensive. Can I find one that threatens something? Hm. (d) actually threatens to kill the white dragon, I think (it allows the eye-stealing tesuji). And d is big for the top. My only concern is a white clamp below b followed by white a, but I think even if that group gets cut off on both sides it can live.

Yeah, the more I picture d the more I like it. I think it even maintains some continuity with Violence's move, continuing the pressure on white.

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:23 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm64 Move 64 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As planned. And it seems to settle White nicely. I don't want to leave too many eye eating options open when it's violence's move.
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