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#238: iseijin vs Marcus

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=10485

Page 7 of 16

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:49 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . 3 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Are ... are there eyes here for White, somewhere? All these floating stones ...

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:38 pm
by Uberdude
@Marcus
Are you trying to kill white? What chance do you think there is of that? Or just attack for profit? If so where is the profit? Did you consider any other ways to attack?

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:37 pm
by EdLee
Instead of :b73: , how about:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B W resists with :w2:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O 3 X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X 1 O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . 2 4 5 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Variation: W connects with :w2:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O 2 X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X 1 O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . 3 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:19 pm
by iseijin
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . 4 O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think I need a stabilizing move here. Else he'll cut through my positino too easily.

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:57 am
by Uberdude
@Ed
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B W resists with :w2:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . 9 . . 8 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . 7 . O 3 X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X 1 O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . 2 4 5 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
6 is tesuji to save the stones (but still w has problems e.g 7-8-9).

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:26 am
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . 5 . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
@Uberdude
I could not find any outright (easy) killing attack. I thought about cutting around G5/F6/G7 and trying to swallow at least a piece of White's group. Similarly, I looked at J6/J7 and could not find a sequence I liked. That being said, looking at the board today, it feels like my descent at E2 erased any White profit on the bottom here anyways, and my previous move now looks rather odd to me (likely a waste of a move and worse; forcing White to fix some weakness here).
I don't think I gave J6 enough thought last move. White only has a very tentative connection everywhere. :b73: fixed things a bit for White,I think, making it a mistake. I think J6 has a better feel, and I have answers for most expected moves. J8 might be a bit dangerous, and there are several branches after I answer that peep. I need to see what he does before I make further plans.

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:02 am
by iseijin
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:22 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X 7 X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Here's the peep. Now, which area will he shore up? Where is his second eye? Do I even know what I'm doing anymore? :blackeye:

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:25 pm
by iseijin
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 8 . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:53 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 8 . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X 9 O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Where will he defend? I know I owe more explanation here, but honestly I'm probing (poorly) for weakness.

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:43 am
by iseijin
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X X O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . 0 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:08 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X X O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . O 1 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I had thought I could ignore this, but on further reading, I need to defend. Sadly, I'm not sure whether it's a good idea for me to continue this fight, but I'm going to. The outcome is far from clear to me yet.

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:22 pm
by EdLee
Hmm, empty triangle. Important to reduce that W lib ?
How about :b1: instead ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X X O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . 1 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:26 pm
by illluck
Another possibility:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O . X X O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . O O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X . 1 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:02 am
by Uberdude
@Marcus:
Did you think about any other ways to defend?
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 7 of 16

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