[go]$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . h . . . g g . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . f , . . O . . , . X . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . a . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . e O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . c X X b . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I really want to get the next move at 'a', but it's hard to count. What aji if any do I have around 'b'? How does or does not that affect 'c' (and what's the move there), which I'm pretty sure is just endgame. Also if I get 'a', what's 'd' like? What's 'd' like anyway? Do I need to consider playing it tough at 'e', and does that gain me anything?Just how big is 'f' open corner? After black or I get 'g'? What invasion aji is there at 'h' ? Black is insanely thick.
Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:06 pm
by Loons
$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm79 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O 8 9 |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O 3 2 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . 1 O X 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
$$Bcm89 :w1: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O O X |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . X . X O X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O X O O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm89 :w1: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O O X |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . X . X O X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O X O O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:41 pm
by xoxo88
this is something i should think about carefully in all its variations:
$$Wcm90
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O O X |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . X . X O X X X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O X O O 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X O 8 O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 7 . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O 5 . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X 3 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
w76 is a thread to activate q7 which is quite big. and since there is not really any potential for me in this direction ill end kinda in gote and white can play something around j14.
some explanations because this isnt easy to see:
there is no potential because i have to play very defensive with the potentially cut h3. as soon white gets a stone at k7 i cant catch the cutting stone anymore. on the other hand i need a stone which protects me from white extending q8. That are the options:
$$Bcm1 :w1: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . h . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . f d O . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . g , c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . b . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . e . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 :w1: :b2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . h . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . f d O . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . g , c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . b . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . e . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
anyway white is satisfied. if i play a: he will just jump to b and i have to play some ugly defending moves which make me look quite overconcentrated. if c, he says thanks, gets d and i have to defend again. the same counts for all attachments, be it on top or on bottom: i cant really put any pressure on his group so these moves are crap. very smart looking is e. it protects the extending of white a indirectly but he gets another move at f or g for free (i need to defend again) and then happily plays anything around h. the whole point is: w gets sente if i play 71 on the inside and lives still without problems and losing sente isnt worth these few points in the corner, so i should have simply played the corner from the outside sente push r18 and then any smart move on the left to remove abit potential from white. or just let it open for later when its big enough.
anybody disagreeing and want to defend my move? ^^
Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:13 am
by xoxo88
as longer i look at this i come to the conclusion that i cannot give him sente here, i would abandon the right side to play on the top. this is just way too big to give it to white, besides im not totally lost after extending w q8. i still can play the attachment q11 and crawl out. should be okay aslong i have some stones on line 14 at this time...
Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:07 pm
by Loons
$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Well, that was a bit of a gross oversight. When black firmly captured [3,6] the situation in the corner changed. I shall at least threaten to keep the corner.
Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:34 pm
by xoxo88
$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
seems he decided to bleed... painfoul to give me this attack, but exactly what i need to get some stones in front of this white moyo on the left, so i wont complain. btw corner ofc not alive yet. as soon ive got some room, he needs to come back there again otherwise i extend to q19... another point why this cant be good for white: i can make use of the unreached solidness of this top group without caring for anything (in difference to this bottom stuff... finally i can enjoy a decent attack and not any moyo invading detritus (edit: does this forum rly censor s h i t??? take that censorship!!! thats something natural what... okay i wont deepen that, just wtf?) where i crawl for a life.)
Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:20 pm
by Loons
$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Bcm69 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . O . . , . X . X O X 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 8 . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Well, I've made some series of mistakes and the situation is hard anyway.
Top right is a ko right now rather than being alive which I guess I missed originally.
I really wanted to find a different move on the right, but it seems that I can't quite avoid playing this. I think the game's fairly winnable for either party.
Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:23 am
by xoxo88
welcome back! i thought alrdy you might abandon ^^
$$Bcm79 :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . X . X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . 1 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+