[go]$$Bc Captures: B1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X . | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X C B . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Okay. This move threatens finishes what the previous one started: making an eye in sente. My opponent had an opportunity to remove all eyes, previously, so I needed to get one, at least. Obviously, if my opponent ignores, I capture and live. I'm working on trying to do the reading to see the best way to follow up. Unless my opponent stops to defend enough to let me live (not going to happen) it looks like somebody's going to die, inside of 20 moves or so. Odds are it's going to me. However, though I'm the underdog here, I feel like I have a shot. I'm not sure who would win if both players played flawlessly, but we won't. If I make less mistakes than my opponent somehow, I may kill this group and win.
Oh, Shaddy: in response to your Breakfast Club misquote, pretend I made a joke about Barry Manilow's wardrobe. =D
Also, sorry I've had a negative attitude occasionally during the game. I'm trying to work on it! This game is JUST a learning opportunity, so I should not get frustrated if I make mistakes.
Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:33 am
by Shaddy
$$Bc Captures: B1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X . | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc diagram 'c' $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . O X 8 9 | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X 7 6 | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X . | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O W 3 | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O 2 1 5 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . 4 . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So, it seems like I may actually be able to keep my opponent to one eye in the corner. The question then is, can I prevent my opponent from getting another eye (or escaping) outside? If so, I can seriously try to kill, and not care what happens to the small bottom left corner.
b
'b' tries to do everything 'a' does, but I trust it less. I looked more exhaustingly at 'a', because it seems more forcing. If 'a' seems to read out okay, I am going to discard 'b'.
If I can reduce white in the corner to one eye:
Can I prevent white from getting an eye on the outside or escaping? If so, I have a worthy attempt to kill. Let's check it out.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X b c O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . a . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X X . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X O | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X b c O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . a . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X X . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X O | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm going to look at these options and possibly others, in my next post. Sorry for the double-post, but I want to show what I've got so far, since I don't think I'll have time to finish reading this out right now.
c-e: If I can't kill, I should start from one of these. 'c' is mostly only good in conjunction with 'a' or 'b' (or as a ko threat). 'd' protects that connection. 'e' helps the other connection while threatening stones. There are other places I'm considering also, but first I'm going
To be continued later, as I keep reading.
Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:29 pm
by topazg
Hidden until you make your choice Chew
I like "e" best
Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:56 pm
by Chew Terr
$$Bc Captures: B1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X . | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O . B . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc Captures: B1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X . | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O . B . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Okay, I can't read deeply enough to be certain that I can kill. But if I let him live, Shaddy has too many ways to cut, or threaten to. This is my line in the stand, and here is my fighting spirit.
Here is what I feel like:
It'll be a long uphill battle with a million tiny ways to die. But if you make it... Hell, you're the guy who killed Dracula with a whip.
Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:59 pm
by Chew Terr
Topazg:
The reason I decided to play here instead is I was concerned that with 'e', I feared that I would capture those four stones while Shaddy made two eyes in the corner, then would have my largest group cut off and surrounded by Shaddy's now-living group.
Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:53 pm
by Shaddy
$$Bc Captures: B1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X . . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X W | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X 1 . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X W | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O 2 X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . 3 . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
$$Bc diagram 'b' $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X 3 . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X 2 | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O W . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O 4 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X 6 . 7 5 . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc diagram 'b' $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X 3 . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X 2 | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O W . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O 4 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X 6 . 7 5 . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So far, this is going along with the earlier diagram I made, reposted here for convenience. Also, Shaddy seems to agree about his needing life on the outside. That is a very large boost to my go-confidence, that I read this much right. One step down, one to go. Oh, and Shaddy: I managed to resist the urge to quote Violence. =D
Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:54 pm
by Shaddy
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X W . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X X . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X O | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X W . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X X . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X O | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
ARGH. ok, let's make the eye
Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:47 pm
by Loons
I am not necessarily convinced that white gets out or gets the other eye, and if he does, it should be painful. Albeit, I haven't read this very heavily.
$$Bc The basic idea $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . 5 . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X W 2 O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O 4 1 O X X . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O 3 O X X X O | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc The basic idea $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . 5 . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X W 2 O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O 4 1 O X X . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O 3 O X X X O | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
$$Bc I don't see a great 2 for white. $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . 1 . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X W . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X X . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X O | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc I don't see a great 2 for white. $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . 1 . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X W . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O . . O X X . | $$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O . O X X X O | $$ | . . X . . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:53 am
by topazg
Chew Terr wrote:Topazg:
The reason I decided to play here instead is I was concerned that with 'e', I feared that I would capture those four stones while Shaddy made two eyes in the corner, then would have my largest group cut off and surrounded by Shaddy's now-living group.
Golden rule of killing - if you don't think you can, take away the outside and force him to live inside - I suspect instead of capturing those four stones, Shaddy would have to live with his group and give you the opportunity to seal him in, connecting your RHS group to the bottom group with reasonable thickness in the process. That way, one has to ask White "Where are your points?"
That said, this line is far more exciting! *grabs popcorn*