thanks for doing this. I know you're probably enjoying the game as much as i am, just wanted to say this is a great learning experience.
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:47 am
by Loons
My knee-jerk move would be topazg's second refutation (as white) and while I think his diagram would not be exactly played out, I agree that on consideration, it is a little lack-lustre (this American spellcheck is trying to convince me to write "luster", which must be the worst Americanisation ever).
I digress. I think Magicwand should probe the shimari. He has an abnormal number of local stones, balancing a result will be awkward for topazg. I am using the word probe pseudo-incorrectly, I just mean a conventional attack on the shimari eg. Magicwand's 'c' (now). With an eye to either plundering the corner, or when topazg resists, fixing his knight's move in sente and sort of getting a result that way. This is really Magicwand's knight's move's meaning sort've anyway, more pressure on the corner. Further, topazg's results all feature black attacking from - so as to fix - the shimari, when he tenuki'd from helping the shimari. I can feel myself rambling, so I am going to pipe down now, but still hit post. Cheerio.
edit:
If a stronger player can point out an obvious refutation of white Q18 or something, that'd be great, I'm having trouble.
Some idle clicking:
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2] RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.00] GN[Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0]DT[2011-01-27]PC[http://lifein19x19.com/]AW[cc][jc][nc][dd][fd][jd][je][oe][df][dh][ih][kh][qj][bk][pk][bl][cm][cn][on][qn][dp][cq]AB[ic][pc][bd][id][ie][qe][cf][if][jf][lf][ch][ci][bj][ck][cl][ql][fo][jp][pp][fq][nq][dr]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/
Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0]PL[B] ;B[me]C[B45]MN[45] (;) (;W[pb] ;B[oc]C[Maybe too good for black. Possible moves past here bemuse me.] ;W[ob] ;B[nd] ;W[mc] ;B[qb]C[white has stable stones facing black thickness. Oh, black will play Q19 if white tenuki-s. White will have to exploit black's faults directly somehow. Living with points in gote might not be good enough considering black's moyo is really the most interesting thing around.] ;W[rb] ;B[qc] ;W[qa]C[gote ? I am going to stop clicking places now]))[/sgf-full]
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:43 am
by flOvermind
Magicwand wrote:my thought:
it is too complicated and i have no idea where he will play. i will wait until he makes his move.
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X O . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i hate when i expect other move and prepare for that and get unexpected move. i am not sure..but first sight his move dont look right. (paradox: if he plays so many wrong moves then how come i am not winning? ) my whole focus is sente 'a' i thought about tenuki now..but i will wait. i think i can get sente to play that point later.
$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . X O . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . X O . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:45 am
by Violence
Observers:
(paradox: if he plays so many wrong moves then how come i am not winning? )
This is one of the best things your opponent could possibly be thinking.
Getting a stronger player to second guess himself can be pretty powerful, but I think Magicwand is going to stubbornly stick to his own judgment and find a way to not get blown out here.
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:51 am
by Magicwand
reason why i said that i made mistake is as below. marked exchange is terrorable for white. i shouldn't have played that exchange.
$$Wcm46 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 6 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . 5 O 2 X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . . 4 . , . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . X O . . B . W . X . . | $$ | . 8 X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm47 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O 5 c . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . 4 O 1 X b . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . . 3 a , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X O . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"a" and "b" cuts don't quite work yet, and the corner clamp at "c" is small as it is gote. He can't cut, his jump out stone floats, I lose very little in the corner, my running dragon is basically alive, and the aji against his top group is very large:
$$Bcm53 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . O O X X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X O . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . 0 O 7 X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . . 9 . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X O . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i expect upto this line..but i wanted to make sure he plays each sequence. biggest question is..is my group alive? it appears to be alive initially. so i looked at it for 5 min and could not find any way to kill it. if i am wrong i will lose this game...i will look at it again before next move..
$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 1 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . O O X X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . X O . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . 3 X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . O O X X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . O X . , . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . X O . . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
ok..i will go ahead with my sequence.. i didtnt use trigger to make sure he has option to tenuki. although my exchange was not good one i wanted to make sure i secure my life.
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:49 am
by topazg
$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . O O X X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . O X . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . X X O . X . . | $$ | . 5 X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . O O X X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . O X . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . . X X O . X . . | $$ | . 5 X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I can only tenuki if I don't care about that corner. White isn't completely happy up there yet, so I need to reserve my options up there. I'm tempted with the following:
$$Bcm55 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 9 7 8 . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . 0 O O X X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . O X . , . . . | $$ | a 2 O . . . . . X O . . X X O . X . . | $$ | . 1 X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | 3 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm55 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 9 7 8 . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X O . 0 O O X X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . X O . . O X . , . . . | $$ | a 2 O . . . . . X O . . X X O . X . . | $$ | . 1 X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | 3 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I haven't decided which "a" is bigger though. The top left one is almost sente, but I don't have two internal eyes, so I'll need to run out at some point anyway
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:56 am
by topazg
On second thoughts, I can connect with a useful push threat against that top left corner:
$$Bcm55 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 9 . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . 5 O . . . . . X O . . O O X X . . . | $$ | . X 7 O . O . . X O . . O X . , . . . | $$ | 3 2 O 8 . . . . X O . . X X O . X . . | $$ | . 1 X O . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
must be @ 
, which gives quite a reduction in sente. I'll have a good think about that