Page 7 of 16

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:45 am
by Horibe
Black's "cash" is less liquid than people think.

s6 is simply huge, and white is almost guaranteed to get it.

Additionally, the combination of p18 and the remaining aji of whites four encircled stones is a problem as well

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 4:29 pm
by ez4u
@Magicwand

Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This seems to approach from your thickness. what do you think about your prospects on the top left versus the bottom left?


@Both - Thanks for a great game so far. Keep it up!

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 4:35 pm
by Violence
GET EM JON!

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 7:41 pm
by Magicwand
ez4u wrote:@Magicwand
This seems to approach from your thickness. what do you think about your prospects on the top left versus the bottom left?



i am thick everywhere. i dont think there is much difference between two approach but i have good enough reason why i approached from this side.... i will discuss them after the game.

assuming that my opponent's reading is equal or better than mine.. he should not have played as he did...
i am now thinking that his local reading is strong...but his global reading is a suspect.
if i have to choose white or black at this point..i will pick white 100%. i wonder if my opponent agrees?
i wonder if observers agree?? i wonder if professionals agree???
hopefully i will find out after the game... ;)

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:10 pm
by Loons
Directionwise:

I think Magicwand wanted/needed to add stone(s) on top as it is the loosest (least developed) part of the board, and for that reason pushed C10 into D16. As others've identified, it seems he can fight stronger on the bottom half, and so adding just c8 in sente may also be fine there for now (as fighting will favor white).

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:03 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This'll be the last post for the weekend, I'll be back in a day or three since it's the holidays.
Few of the three space extension variations I looked at seemed particularly favorable (in fact, let's just say none), so we're going with two space. Now, just so we're all clear, I see moves like s6, ~q 17-p18-ish moves, and the fact he can atari in the center. Totally aware and have plans for each one. Does that make me feel less confident: no. Because what I also see are...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . f X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . g X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . e . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The exact spot for b I'm still reading out, but these are all wonderful moves that either remove aji, are invasion points, or can just nab territory away from my opponent. The idea from now on is balance. First off, no kos! Second, the bottom side I can clinch and the center is not big for him so the main battle will be fought at the top. I thought he should have made the extension from the top rather than towards it. He probably has visions of ransacking me in the center. Will I be attacked this game? Duh. The idea is to keep an eye on how he plans to gain and thwart it. Will it require immense reading. Thankfully yes, that's about the one part of this game I'm good at :)

Happy holidays all.

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 2:04 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



if he had extended one space more... i would have humped in.

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 6:29 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X , 9 . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 6:35 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:01 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:40 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:03 am
by Joaz Banbeck
@Players: This may be side joseki to you, but not to all observers. Can you add some comments?
Thanks

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:17 am
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So uh....this is a middle game joseki :) Not sure what else there is to say about it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . 2 . 5 . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 4 . O 7 . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . 6 X 1 X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This variation I wouldn't choose because he gets territory which is what he needs more of right now and I don't need this thickness.

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:17 am
by emerus
Before I saw the result of this side joseki, I thought that W's influence would amount to a large chunk of territory. But now, I feel like aji at c3/c17 are giving black a clear lead on territory and no more weaknesses to tend to.

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:01 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . 5 X 4 . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i will comment when it is time for me to comment. i will hide my reading that my opponent is missing until he realize it and too late to fix it :) . observers.. please be patient and understand.