Page 7 of 17

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:11 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black's right side is big. Well, I guess he has to get something.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:00 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is still sente (although it may well be aji-keshi), and I want to strengthen the connection between O4 and Q4. Assuming he responds (otherwise I kill the corner) I will have a tough choice where to play next:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . a . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b b . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . c . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At least a-d seem interesting. A was my initial thought, but now I'm leaning towards b.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:44 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 1 . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Will he give me sente? Probably not. I hope so, though!

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:14 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:23 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I'm kind of losing the so-called "flow" here. I need to get it back. First, though, let's stabilize this group.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:47 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This may well be an overplay, but lets see what happens.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:11 am
by tj86430
Somehow I feel that Kirby is not playing as aggressively as one should when giving four stones. So far I think my life has been relatively easy, and I think I'm well ahead at this point. Perhaps he is giving me a false sense of security.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:13 am
by lorill
tj86430 wrote:
So far I think my life has been relatively easy, and I think I'm well ahead at this point.


@TJ
Interesting. Could you outline where are your points, and do the same for white ? What is your estimate ?

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:15 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X 5 . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let's not respond. That'll give him the initiative.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:29 am
by tj86430
Today I'm a bit ill and tomorrow I will be on the road again, so I will probably post my next move on Monday.
At first I naturally thought of this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X 5 B X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Which leads to a complicated fight. Besides I think Kirby wouldn't have played his last move, unless there was a nasty suprise waiting for me.

Then I thought that I don't really need those two stones, so perhaps something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X 1 3 X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now I have started toying with the idea of ignoring altogether. If he keeps attacking the corner I may get something bigger in return, e.g. (W3 is just an example, I haven't thought of what his best local move would be):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X 1 . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . 3 . . . 4 . . 2 . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


but I don't know if that's too adventurous. We'll see.

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:34 am
by EdLee
(For beginners.)
tj86430 wrote:Then I thought that I don't really need those two stones, so perhaps something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . # # O . O O . . . . .
$$ | . W # . O B B O . . . .
$$ | . W . # # 1 3 X O O . .
$$ | . . . . . 2 . X . . . .
$$ | . . W . 4 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . .[/go]
Exactly. B lets go of the two useless :bc: stones,
makes the :bs: group stronger, and later W even has to worry about the :wc: group.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:34 am
by tj86430
I apologize for the delay

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O 6 X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I decided to bite the bullet and fight. I did some reading (not enough) and found that I have a decent chance to either get out or kill his upper left group. Let's see what happens, I'm fairly certain that I have overlooked something important.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:36 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know what's going to happen.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:57 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guessed that :razz:

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:12 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . 9 . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm being way too aggressive, but I am losing. I need him to trip up on something so that I can have a chance.