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Big Brother Malkovich #5

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=8271

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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:42 am
by Dragon Pie
I approve.
Splitting up the top is a good enough idea. Still, I think black will be happy to close his open skirt. Not worth giving up points over. I'm rethinking my previous change, too.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:44 am
by skydyr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 :b3: :w3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . 2 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:30 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
The perfect move, IMHO. I approve.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:40 am
by Splatted
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 :b3: :w3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . 4 . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Like all super villains, I like to build bases.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:12 pm
by Dragon Pie
I approve.
Now I think an extension on the left is biggest. I would have peaked under his skirt on the last move if I was white, but I didn't think the difference was enough to justify giving up points to change it.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:00 pm
by Splatted
@Anyone and everyone: When I played K17 it was pretty obvious that black would rather reply with an extension from the left. I feel like I should be able to take advantage of knowing what black wants, but I couldn't work out how. It's a pretty common situation so I'd really appreciate some hidden comments on the subject if anyone's feeling helpful. :bow:

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:35 pm
by skydyr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 :b3: :w3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . 4 . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As mentioned.

Regarding Splatted's statement, maybe play J17 instead of K17?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:33 am
by Unusedname
question for obs.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . O . . W . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
isn't this 5 better?

it has the same flavor of invasion. and also has more potential thanks to the marked black stone

it reaches as far as a while the other side is limited by the marked white stone

i ask because both joaz and sky agree on this move. I also think it's strange that joaz thinks it's sente.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:08 am
by TIM82
Unusedname wrote:question for obs.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . O . . W . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
isn't this 5 better?

it has the same flavor of invasion. and also has more potential thanks to the marked black stone

it reaches as far as a while the other side is limited by the marked white stone

i ask because both joaz and sky agree on this move. I also think it's strange that joaz thinks it's sente.
IMHO 25 as in game is at least slightly better than your proposal for a few reasons: Most importantly, if White approaches the top right black enclosure from both sides, it actually looks quite lonely, and at least loses any potential at all for expansion. At the same time a white extension on right would make an invasion there harder. This is bad, because threatening to invade the right side seems bigger to me than threatening to invade left side, which is smaller to begin with and has the weakness at B4. To sum it up: I don't know what is sente here, but I suspect that 25 is more likely to be sente than you proposal (or at least bigger of the two options) .

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:49 am
by Tooveli
Unusedname wrote:question for obs.
I would say they're pretty much miai. My inclination is that the right side is better as the invasion is easier and the top right corner is weaker. On the other hand, the left-side move is bigger in terms of territory/framework. I would just play on the right and spend my time on more important parts of the game. As long as you play one of the two you're not going to be making a huge mistake.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:22 am
by Uberdude
@Dragon Pie
Dragon Pie wrote: I would have peaked under his skirt on the last move if I was white, but I didn't think the difference was enough to justify giving up points to change it.
What move do you mean?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:16 am
by Unusedname
Interesting. okay so what i'm getting is

most importantly the right side is a better move because if you pass that side is the better move for white.

And also it's inefficient to create 2 invasion aji because white gets to clean up both with one move.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:08 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I approve...
...but not by much. We now have two invadable 3-space jumps. And younger brother indicates that he intends to create a third one.
:grumpy:

I really want to play O6, but I can't say for sure that it is three stones better.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:05 pm
by skydyr
I think it's Splatted's turn now?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:30 pm
by Splatted
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 :b3: :w3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . 6 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This seems mutually beneficial. I feel like I'm falling behind, but the lower right side looks to be where I'm going to make a lot of my territory so I want to reply here.
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