Life In 19x19

I'm curious whether the league game today between Yi Se-tol and Jiang Weijie was treated as a triple ko or quadruple ko. If the latter I'd expect a bigger fuss about it.

In passing, this game shows once again that the rule about superko is ignored. This game was treated as void and replayed.

Can you post a game record?

Here is the first game

John Fairbairn wrote:I'm curious whether the league game today between Yi Se-tol and Jiang Weijie was treated as a triple ko or quadruple ko. If the latter I'd expect a bigger fuss about it.

In passing, this game shows once again that the rule about superko is ignored. This game was treated as void and replayed.

How can you ignore a rule that doesn't exist for the competition?

John Fairbairn wrote:I'm curious whether the league game today between Yi Se-tol and Jiang Weijie was treated as a triple ko or quadruple ko.

Okkon Kim of Baduk TV calls it a "Double ko and two 0.5 kos." on his Facebook page.

Just to clarify, the E10/F10 ko doesn't really matter right? That's just a 1 point ko, it's the double ko at R7/8 and T7/8 combined with the critical ko at A1/2 that caused an impasse right? Because if either of those groups die that player loses?

Shawn Ligocki wrote:Just to clarify, the E10/F10 ko doesn't really matter right? That's just a 1 point ko, it's the double ko at R7/8 and T7/8 combined with the critical ko at A1/2 that caused an impasse right? Because if either of those groups die that player loses?

Hm, actually I guess it's quite close score if White loses the double ko group. I can't read this well enough, is it close enough that that 1 point ko decides the game?

How can you ignore a rule that doesn't exist for the competition?

I no longer try to keep abreast of the wrinkles but as I understand it superko does exist as a rule in Chinese Go Association rules. It's just that nobody seems to take any notice of it usually. Macelee may be able to explain the finer points.

A practical point is that if Chinese players ignore the rule, then should those playing under AGA and similar rules do likewise?

FWIW, on a study trip to China we (European amateur) students had to explain the superko rule to our (Chinese professional) teachers.

Shawn Ligocki wrote:... is it close enough that that 1 point ko decides the game?

Seems so.

John Fairbairn wrote:

How can you ignore a rule that doesn't exist for the competition?

I no longer try to keep abreast of the wrinkles but as I understand it superko does exist as a rule in Chinese Go Association rules. It's just that nobody seems to take any notice of it usually. Macelee may be able to explain the finer points.

A practical point is that if Chinese players ignore the rule, then should those playing under AGA and similar rules do likewise?

Uberdude wrote:FWIW, on a study trip to China we (European amateur) students had to explain the superko rule to our (Chinese professional) teachers.

I always thought that superko was a western invention because western players did not like the idea of an unresolved game. I am surprised that it would be part of the Chinese rules but these two comments seem to imply that it is still not part of the oriental way of thinking about the game.

A rough translation to the relevant section of the Chinese rule:

Repeated board positions (such as triple ko, quadrupal ko, eternal life etc) are forbidden in principle. Depending on tournament, these games may be declared as void, draw or replay ordered.

So it is incorrect to say that the Chinese players simply ignore the rule.

macelee wrote:A rough translation to the relevant section of the Chinese rule:

Repeated board positions (such as triple ko, quadrupal ko, eternal life etc) are forbidden in principle. Depending on tournament, these games may be declared as void, draw or replay ordered.

So it is incorrect to say that the Chinese players simply ignore the rule.

Here is another translation at http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/c2002.pdf

"Triple Ko, quadruple Ko, eternal life Ko, two-stone Ko, etc., are rare repetitions of the same shape on the whole board which are in principle forbidden

Depending on the type of tournament, it is possible to make alternative rules, for example: no result, tie or additional competition. "

Has superko rule ever been used?

Concerning professionals, superko has been used in Ing-I Rules, Chinese Rules (for sending-2-returning-1 for sure, also CEGO), Japanese 1949 Rules (in the text only).