[go]$$Bm13 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . 6 . . . . $$ | . . O 2 1 O 5 . . $$ | . 4 X O O X O 7 . $$ | . O O X X X . . . $$ | . 3 X . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Why not play 13 at 17? This is the normal way to play if you can, as white cannot answer differently so he ends up with worse shape.
Doesn't White end up with better shape this way? That looks like a failed A-B-C principle to me
Re: Punishing joseki mistake (problem)
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:03 pm
by amnal
topazg wrote: Doesn't White end up with better shape this way? That looks like a failed A-B-C principle to me
It is not obvious to me that this is the case.
Re: Punishing joseki mistake (problem)
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:02 pm
by Magicwand
they are both similar but bottom is the better answer by....fraction of a point.
$$Bm13 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . O . . . . $$ | . . O O . O X . . $$ | . O . O O X O X . $$ | . O O X X X . . . $$ | . X X . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bm13 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . O . . . . $$ | . . O O . O X . . $$ | . O . O O X O X . $$ | . O O X X X . . . $$ | . X X . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
$$Bm13 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . O . O O X . . $$ | . O . O O X O X . $$ | . O O X X X . . . $$ | . X X . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bm13 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . O . O O X . . $$ | . O . O O X O X . $$ | . O O X X X . . . $$ | . X X . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Re: Punishing joseki mistake (problem)
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:14 am
by HermanHiddema
fwiffo wrote:This is what I had in mind. Maybe I'm wrong?
$$Bm13 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . 6 . . . . $$ | . b O 2 1 O 5 a . $$ | . 4 X O O X O 7 . $$ | . O O X X X . . . $$ | . 3 X . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bm13 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . 6 . . . . $$ | . b O 2 1 O 5 a . $$ | . 4 X O O X O 7 . $$ | . O O X X X . . . $$ | . 3 X . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Black in the above diagram is not sente, should defend at a instead. All white gets is a move at capturing 2 stones in gote. Big endgame, nothing more (White will get b in sente later)
Proper play:
$$Bm13 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . O . 2 O 1 . . $$ | . . X O O X O 3 . $$ | . O O X X X . . . $$ | . 4 X . . . . . . $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bm13 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . O . 2 O 1 . . $$ | . . X O O X O 3 . $$ | . O O X X X . . . $$ | . 4 X . . . . . . $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
This is proper play. White can choose not to play though, it is a push from behind on the second line, so it depends on the position whether it is good. White can wait anyway, a black move there is just large endgame, and currently gote.
Re: Punishing joseki mistake (problem)
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:51 am
by entropi
$$Bm7 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . 6 . 8 2 7 . . $$ | . 0 X O O 1 O a . $$ | . 4 O X X 5 . . . $$ | . 9 3 . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .
is not joseki - it should be at a. Black to punish the error!
in the above diagram is not sente, 
should defend at a instead. All white gets is a move at