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Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:06 pm
by Pippen
I want to play a game with the following set-up against a player who's a dan player at KGS or Tygem (or with similiar strength). I am experimenting with a split fuseki where I abandon the split stone deliberately to use it as a sleeper later (or to trick my opponent into making too many moves according to that stone). Suggestions and comments from other players are alright too.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B I am white. It's your turn (whomever you are^^)! (Please always mark the last played stone)
p.s. If I violate rules please delete this thread, I didn't read all the stuff about how to do a Malkovich game.
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:34 pm
by Uberdude
Why are you forcing black to make a shimari instead of take the empty corner? That might be better for black (though if white did 2 corners first and then black shimari white's wedge is certainly bad, so this is already good for black, but maybe it could be even better).
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:47 pm
by Uberdude
I don't feel like playing a full game (and am going on holiday this weekend), but if others want we could do a tag-team style of random dan L19ers vs Pippen. To get it started:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
If the position was as below then sensible directions for white would be the lower side (as that's where the black shimari wants to extend) or perhaps approach top or san ren sei, moves a-f. The reason for
a being one to the right of hoshi is it aims at
g later, which aims at
h $$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Instead he played his weird split, so I'll just ignore it and let it look silly naturally and play the important direction of lower side. I briefly considered an extension rather than the approach, but meh whatever approach can't be bad.
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:54 pm
by ez4u
Pippen wrote: I want to play a game with the following set-up against a player who's a dan player at KGS or Tygem (or with similiar strength). I am experimenting with a split fuseki where I abandon the split stone deliberately to use it as a sleeper later (or to trick my opponent into making too many moves according to that stone). Suggestions and comments from other players are alright too.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B I am white. It's your turn (whomever you are^^)! (Please always mark the last played stone)
p.s. If I violate rules please delete this thread, I didn't read all the stuff about how to do a Malkovich game.
[OK 'dude got in before I hit submit, but I will post this anyway
]
Consider this one of those "comments from other players" rather than a offer to play. I think that you are asking someone to volunteer based on inferior play by Black. Just because some knucklehead on Tygem answered your splitting play directly does not mean that us ordinary folks would!
The correct starting point for testing your strategy would be 1 through 4 below IMHO. In that case Black might debate where in the lower left to play (5 or another point in the vicinity), but not between the lower left and a play in the lower right. So you would be stuck starting from something like this. Now what exactly is 4 'splitting'?
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:03 pm
by Pippen
Yeah, let's just make it an any danplayer vs. Pippen thing, as long as it's going. We do not need to finish the game. Of course any comment, including advice for me, is appreaciated. It shall be kind of an learning game for weaker players too.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B I play calm and for sente here. I like the fact that I can let Black guessing whether my split stone is just a bait or for real. If he attacks it, I'll sacrifice it for sente and big points while still keeping some aji (Black would need more than 3 moves to kill off anything there). If he continues to play elsewhere I will develop it into a group that is able to serve as a base for invasions on both black sides.
@ez: good point
.
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:16 pm
by Uberdude
k4. It's like black played Kobayashi but instead of usual approach white did weird split allowing black shimari.
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:36 pm
by Pippen
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B I wanna develop fast.
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:43 pm
by Bill Spight
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BNow I regret commenting on this kind of position recently.
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:33 am
by Uberdude
I wasn't sure whether to play big or small knight's move here.
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:28 am
by Pippen
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BTrying to support my last stone while developing.
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:52 am
by Uberdude
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:28 am
by Violence
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BFor the Dan hivemind:
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:04 am
by Bill Spight
Uberdude wrote: I wasn't sure whether to play big or small knight's move here.
The first joseki I studied was this large knight's response. OC, I have forgotten it, but I can count on you to handle all the variations.
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:18 am
by Bill Spight
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B is the obvious alternative. But after
Black is slightly overconcentrated. This is still eminently playable, though.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BBut what about this wedge? White is unlikely to play
because of the ko in the corner. Nor is White likely to approach at "a" because it is so small.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BAnd
here is not very severe, leaving a one space extension on either side for Black. And Black can revert to the top right corner.
Re: Pippen vs. whomever danplayer comes first here
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:55 am
by Violence
Yeah like I feel like our move was not what I would usually play, but I also like our attacking prospects, and before you can really go crazy around here, I think securing the corner is important before starting a fight, which seems inevitable with the way white has been disregarding his stones.
I didn't really like playing on the left side because I felt like we might want to take the corner later and reduce his thickness, a lot of the moves on the left side of the board seem overly committal when we don't really have to be.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BI just feel like in this scenario we induced white to take a big corner, which is kinda what he wanted to do with his original large knight's move, right?
Also I'm not so certain we need a position on the left side of the board when we're looking to make something of our lower side.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BHow about I phrase it this way, if we play at 1 and white plays at 2, would you like to play at 3?
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BOr really, just remove the move we played and give white an extra move.
Doesn't it feel like we're still ahead in the opening?
Doesn't the left side feel really uninteresting?
My feeling is that there are better things to be doing with our time.
] 
.
is the obvious alternative. But after 
Black is slightly overconcentrated. This is still eminently playable, though. 
because of the ko in the corner. Nor is White likely to approach at "a" because it is so small.