Life In 19x19

So Yokoku played an unorthodox opening in the Judan tournament, losing by a half point. While you can't say these new cosmic openings are common, they are seen more and more frequently. Personally, I hope it is a trend and not a fad, but I am not optimistic.

I wouldn't be surprised if cosmic go becomes more common. If computers reach high levels, I have a feeling they will tend toward that sort of go. If that's the case, we could see a revolution in pro-style.

Hi,

Thanks for sharing. I was looking through this game just yesterday, so it's a nice coincidence it's come to the attention of the L19 community.

That So only lost by 0.5 in a very serious game shows that the 7-5-based opening is viable. I hope he and others will keep playing it and we can all learn some interesting new patterns and perhaps even change around our thinking. Perhaps this is the real start of "21st century go"?

So Y. has played double 7-5 at least four times this year. He has become interested in the Zen program and that may explain part of the reason.

But these fads re-surface every few years and, because they perhaps never seem to lead to any advances in go theory, magazines rarely even bother mentioning them now.

Can you imagine how go theory would change with these openings? I mean you can just throw decades of joseki studying down the drain if your opponent won't follow it.

To tell you the truth when I started playing go I was kinda sad since I noticed you "can't" really play stones where ever you want since it was not viable.

We are all playing in the corners cause it seems to be the best strategy and we don't allow ourselves to play this kind of cosmic go since we are not sure if we will win.

If you are a dan player why not start playing cosmic go? Sure you will fall down to a ~5 kyu range but imagine the look on your opponents face when you beat them using this kind of go?

Ohh, I went to far with this so let me get back on what I wanted to say.

When I first saw go I had this image on how it should be played and the way this pro played it is what I had in mind.

Stones flying around the board ( I understand however that this pro didn't just throw stones randomly)

Actually I am sick and tired of this joseki plays in the corner, playing like So did must be fun

John Fairbairn wrote:So Y. has played double 7-5 at least four times this year. He has become interested in the Zen program and that may explain part of the reason.

But these fads re-surface every few years and, because they perhaps never seem to lead to any advances in go theory, magazines rarely even bother mentioning them now.

The High Chinese-style Opening was played a lot in the 1970's and early 1980's, all seven games of the Fujisawa vs Kato Kisei match used that opening. Now that opening is seldom played and, if I recall correctly, professional thinking was that that opening is advantageous for White, too much emphasis on high plays by Black. Even the San Ren Sei has gone through fads and since received criticism (pace Takemiya).

I think it is interesting to think about the Monte Carlo based programs. In a way those programs have no strategy other than play to maximise the probablility of winning. This is no guidance for human players who can't examine thousands of play-outs. When the program says that a certain move is best at a certain point it gives no useful information as to how a human could find the move. It is easier for human players to plaay Cosmic Style because a lot of strategy decisions are determined by the cosmic style. Interesting that the Ida vs. So game it started out with cosmic style but, as the game went on it became more and more territorial.

I have a theory about why Monte Carlo programs play cosmic go. It has to do with using random playouts for evaluation. Randomly played stones are unlikely to make living shapes in local regions, so they depend upon connections to live. And stones in the center are more likely to connect random stones than stones elsewhere.

Krama wrote:If you are a dan player why not start playing cosmic go? Sure you will fall down to a ~5 kyu range but imagine the look on your opponents face when you beat them using this kind of go?

If you are a dan player and start playing the "pass on your first move" strategy, would you fall down to 5 kyu?

If I am playing KGS blitz and my opponent plays some strange high move I usually play even more high silly moves to troll them and beat them at their own game, which I usually do. I don't turn into a 5k.

Uberdude wrote:If I am playing KGS blitz and my opponent plays some strange high move I usually play even more high silly moves to troll them and beat them at their own game, which I usually do. I don't turn into a 5k.

There was a player on KGS with the account name dezomb. I believe the account is expired, but you can view his/her games at https://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp? ... Accounts=y. Dezomb played lots of super high moves in the fuseki, and in the account info, also had a ten commandments of playing such an unusual opening. One of dezomb's pieces of advice was to not play normal enclosures/josekis when your opponent is playing super high. So Uberdude's trolling may actually be the correct approach.

yoyoma wrote:

Krama wrote:If you are a dan player why not start playing cosmic go? Sure you will fall down to a ~5 kyu range but imagine the look on your opponents face when you beat them using this kind of go?

If you are a dan player and start playing the "pass on your first move" strategy, would you fall down to 5 kyu?

Why don't you try it?

Try playing let's say 5 unusual moves on the board against a person of your own rank.

See how many games you are able to win.

Here's another thread on So Yokoku's unusual openings

Krama wrote:

yoyoma wrote:

Krama wrote:If you are a dan player why not start playing cosmic go? Sure you will fall down to a ~5 kyu range but imagine the look on your opponents face when you beat them using this kind of go?

If you are a dan player and start playing the "pass on your first move" strategy, would you fall down to 5 kyu?

Why don't you try it?

Try playing let's say 5 unusual moves on the board against a person of your own rank.

See how many games you are able to win.

Ok I'm trying it now. I'm going four 7-5 points, and then try to play what I think is best from there. I'm usually kgs 1d, so far I have just 4 games with 1 win and a 2k rating.

http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=sevenfive

Edit update: 3 wins 3 losses, 1 kyu.

Krama wrote:

yoyoma wrote:

Krama wrote:If you are a dan player why not start playing cosmic go? Sure you will fall down to a ~5 kyu range but imagine the look on your opponents face when you beat them using this kind of go?

If you are a dan player and start playing the "pass on your first move" strategy, would you fall down to 5 kyu?

Why don't you try it?

Try playing let's say 5 unusual moves on the board against a person of your own rank.

See how many games you are able to win.

Exhibit A: Not the highest quality game (e.g. he could actually live at the end), but I found it amusing. I don't often win by almost 200 points with normal openings .

ok... but to play like this you need to be super strong in reading and understanding shapes.

If I started playing this I am sure I couldn't win against anyone my level.