Life In 19x19

Hello.

After reading Go: A Complete Introduction to the Game by Cho Chikun and Learn to Play Go Volume I by Jeong Soo-hyun, I have finally begun playing some games two days ago for the first time ever.

This is my 12th game. I was White. I lost, but I found it interesting.





I would very much appreciate if you could give me some feedback, comments and analysis please.

I also have some questions about particular moves:

- The thing that happened between move 14 and 18 arose often in my other games. Is this some kind of really common series of moves?

- Could you explain me the thing that happened between move 21 and 28 and which happened a second time between move 59 and 66? It also happened a lot in my other games. I was afraid that Black would play 27 at D8, could he have done that and would I have been in trouble if he did it?

- At first I thought that Black’s move 31 was strong, but then apparently at move 46 I still got the corner… could Black have played better there? Why didn’t Black play either move 39 at R11 or move 41 at R12? Would it have been strong?

- In the position right at move 74, who was winning? Because there I thought either it was equal or maybe I was even very slightly better.

- Move 75 was annoying. Before it, I thought that all the territory below the 8th line and at the left of the H line was going to be all mine. But move 75 appears to steal everything. How could I have fight this?

- What could have I done better between move 76 and 87? I blundered everything with move 84, probably I could have just played it at N5 instead.

- At move 100, my strategy was to try to steal him some chunks of the center, by invading the center either from the right (near Q8) or from the top (near G15 and F15). I was afraid that he would play 101 at G15 or F15, stopping my invasion from the top, but luckily for me he didn’t. He stopped my invasion from the right though, I was a little surprised by this, I thought I would invade successfully from there too…

Most of my games end like this: at the end, I have three small groups, while my opponent has one big group and has the great majority of the center. In this game though, I tried to steal some of the center, but I still ended up with less of the center than my opponent. Should I do something to change that?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Hi Alcadeias,

- not good. This exchange good for .

- the same. Good exchange for .

bad habit. Locally, just connect is better.

B can choose not to fix this cut right now -- there is no cut right now.
And your local shape is bad: B can attack you heavy group at R12.

just extend up to D8, a proper move.

If you were afraid cutting at D8, then you could've connected there yourself on ; or, you could've extended there directly on .
If cutting at D8 is severe, then you should've avoided this possibility in the first place. As it is, B could've cut on , and it would be a fight. But the game result is simple and good for .
First, learn the proper move of D8 on .
See also in this game .

what was/is your plan if B cuts at R6 ? Did you read it before your hane ?

just extend to Q12.

through premature.

H17, attack your very heavy group; you would have to run for a long time, while profited.
in the game is a common mistake at these levels: taking a vacation during a battle.

the same bad habit as . This descend has its time and place: when you're struggling for eye space, for life, sometimes you have no choice but to play it. It could be the case here. However, at these levels, it's very common to see people play this move as a habit, which is bad.

H18 tiger's mouth: very clearly alive.
( forced you to live. forced to become a good move. )

not play it here is better.

- another common mistake. Bad exchange for you.
If you push like , then you must cut at J6 with .
If you don't want to cut or cannot cut with ,
then don't push at all in the first place.
Because the - exchange is locally bad for --
you bump your head against , you reduce your own libs,
you take the inside while gets the outside.
completes this wrong sequence with more bad shape: an empty triangle.

( Plenty of basics to study up to here. )

Alcadeias wrote:This is my 12th game.

Also, I encourage you to finish 100 games as quickly as you can afford to.
Play. Play. Play.

Thank you EdLee for this very helpful answer.

Before playing 36 I quickly considered the cut at R6 during the game, and I just thought that if he did that I could just atari him with either R7 or S6. Since I had two possible moves I just thought that probably at least one of those two possibilities will be good for me, and so I must admit that I didn't really try to calculate what would happen exactly on that one. Now that I try to calculate it, it seems Black's cut is very dangerous and White either gets killed or gets into a poor position.

Playing a hundred 19x19 games? That seems like a lot. This would take me about two months. And I like playing slow games. In fact I'm so slow that all my opponents ask me "are you still here?" all the time. Usually I play at a time control of 30 minutes + 5 byo-yomi of 60 seconds each, but it's too fast for me and I always get into time trouble (and then I play a lot of blunders which lose quickly) so I will probably increase the time a little more. Funnily enough it's just like in chess, I always get into time trouble if I play at a time control of less than about 40 minutes.
Now I will first read Learn to Play Go Volume II, then I'll play maybe fifty 9x9 games, and then I promise you I will play a hundred 19x19 games

Alcadeias wrote:Playing a hundred 19x19 games? This would take me about two months.

I only said 100 games, not 19x19. Any size will do. All 100 9x9 will do, but you can mix it up.
As in chess, 20 years is nothing in Go.

Alcadeias wrote:And I like playing slow games.
I play at a time control of 30 minutes + 5 byo-yomi of 60 seconds each, but it's too fast for me. I always get into time trouble if I play at a time control of less than about 40 minutes.

I like slow games, too. My normal time control is Canadian 30 mins. for 20 moves (average 90 secs/move, but the distribution is free.) For serious tourneys, I only play in the US Open, which gives 1 hour 30 miniutes initial time for each person, and that is the fastest tourney setting I'll take.

But, having said that, at your phase, there is such a thing as too slow. May I suggest, for your current level, less than 5 secs a move is too fast, and more than 1 minute for every single move is too slow. Yes, occasionally, for a very difficult situation, do take your time. But if you spend over 1 minute for every move, it's too slow for you, right now.

We can see your chess background with your vocabulary of "calculate".

Welcome to go!

Alcadeias wrote:Playing a hundred 19x19 games? That seems like a lot. This would take me about two months. And I like playing slow games. In fact I'm so slow that all my opponents ask me "are you still here?" all the time. Usually I play at a time control of 30 minutes + 5 byo-yomi of 60 seconds each, but it's too fast for me and I always get into time trouble

When I started playing go, it took me maybe eight or nine months to play my first one hundred games. (I wasn't counting. ) OC, that was before the internet. So you certainly don't have to rush to play so many games.

But the point of that saying is that, when you are starting out, you learn a lot from each game, just by playing. It is also good to go over your games afterwards, something that online play makes easy.

Of course, you can play slowly. But the more slowly you play, the less you are likely to learn, at this stage of your go career. You have set yourself a difficult task, akin to attempting to form grammatically correct Latin sentences when you don't know any Latin words. You have not yet built up your go vocabulary. I don't mean terminology, I mean the building blocks of play. You may be thinking a lot, but you do not have a lot to think with, yet. Now is a good time to try things out and see what happens. You do not have to figure everything out de novo.

Good luck!

Bill Spight wrote: Of course, you can play slowly. But the more slowly you play, the less you are likely to learn, at this stage of your go career. You have set yourself a difficult task, akin to attempting to form grammatically correct Latin sentences when you don't know any Latin words. You have not yet built up your go vocabulary. I don't mean terminology, I mean the building blocks of play. You may be thinking a lot, but you do not have a lot to think with, yet. Now is a good time to try things out and see what happens. You do not have to figure everything out de novo.

I strongly agree with all of Bill's advice, and I'd also add a few more things:

First, don't worry about rank. As a beginner, you don't have a rank, and you won't have a real one for months at least, despite what some server or something may tell you.

Second, don't be afraid to try things. If you see a move, and you wonder 'what happens if I play over here' or 'what if I don't respond but play somewhere else', try to read for 20 to 30 seconds and then play the move that strikes your fancy. It's not worth worrying about the result or reading much more than that until you learn what needs to be read. Don't forget that a year from now you won't care in the least whether you won this or that game or lost it terribly, because you'll be far above that level anyways.

Finally, as a beginner, you will likely play other beginners. When you look over games, or while you are playing, they will tell you that X is wrong, or you need to do Y in this situation. They are beginners too. Sometimes they will be right, but they are just as likely to be dead wrong, and it's not easy to tell which is which until you're past their level anyways. It's worth thinking about their advice, but don't take it as gospel, and if you can, verify it with a significantly stronger player (DDK doesn't count). Asking on this forum is a great way to get a good answer which is reasonably correct.

Some comments towards the end. Goto move 189.

Alcadeias wrote: Most of my games end like this: at the end, I have three small groups, while my opponent has one big group and has the great majority of the center. In this game though, I tried to steal some of the center, but I still ended up with less of the center than my opponent. Should I do something to change that?

Yes. For instance, would have been a good play to jump into the center at P-14. (There are other good plays, too. But that would have prevented a large Black center and started building a sphere of influence for White.)

Also, would have been good at O-13. Ditto .