which seemed reasonable but I'm curious if there are better possible outcomes for Black?
Re: Responding to a 3x3 invasion
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:34 am
by Uberdude
Do you think white is alive?
Re: Responding to a 3x3 invasion
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:53 pm
by Krama
play 7 on 2-2 in the corner and try to live with white.
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:01 pm
by EdLee
Krama wrote:[jump] in the corner
Do you think that's the best move for B ?
Re:
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:33 pm
by Bill Spight
EdLee wrote:
Krama wrote:[jump] in the corner
Do you think that's the best move for B ?
It's not a jump, it's a clamp.
But your question is excellent.
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:37 pm
by EdLee
Thanks, Bill. Many beginners are so happy because they spot a vital point,
and they are so excited they "jump" in the placement. So I emphasize the "jump in" bad habit.
Re:
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:22 pm
by Bill Spight
EdLee wrote:Thanks, Bill. Many beginners are so happy because they spot a vital point,
and they are so excited they "jump" in the placement. So I emphasize the "jump in" bad habit.
No internal ko threat for white in either of them. I spotted alone killed when I first looked at this but it left rather a lot of moves for white to play inside for threats later.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:51 am
by EdLee
Hi Boidhre,
$$
$$ ----------------|
$$ . . . . . b . . |
$$ . . . . X O a . |
$$ . . O . X O . O |
$$ . . . . X X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X c |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$
[go]$$
$$ ----------------|
$$ . . . . . b . . |
$$ . . . . X O a . |
$$ . . O . X O . O |
$$ . . . . X X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X c |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$[/go]
Food for thought:
There may not be any ko the rest of the game. (We don't know yet.)
How useful is (a) for Black for the rest of the board ?
$$
$$ ----------------|
$$ . . . . . b . . |
$$ . . . . X O a . |
$$ . . O . X O . O |
$$ . . . . X X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X c |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$
[go]$$
$$ ----------------|
$$ . . . . . b . . |
$$ . . . . X O a . |
$$ . . O . X O . O |
$$ . . . . X X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X c |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$[/go]
Food for thought:
There may not be any ko the rest of the game. (We don't know yet.)
How useful is (a) for Black for the rest of the board ?
Same question for (b) and (c).
b and c remove some aji from the position over just a I think. Other than that I can't see any effect on the rest of the board other than if the white group's status is left undetermined the black stones are slightly weaker. I don't know if Black should tenuki this with only seeing a corner segment.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:40 pm
by EdLee
Hi Boidhre,
If at 2-2, then takes in sente -- miai of and :
$$B
$$ ----------------|
$$ . . . . 4 1 2 . |
$$ . . . 6 X O 3 5 |
$$ . . O . X O . O |
$$ . . . . X X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$
[go]$$W
$$ ----------------|
$$ . . . . 1 B O 7 |
$$ . . . 2 X O 5 B |
$$ . . O . X O . O |
$$ . . . . X X O 8 |
$$ . . . . . . X 3 |
$$ . . . . . . 4 6 |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$[/go]
Conclusion: hane is not a correct move.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:02 pm
by EdLee
Hi Boidhre,
$$
$$ ----------------|
$$ . . . . . . b . |
$$ . . . . X O a . |
$$ . . O . X O . O |
$$ . . . . X X O . |
$$ . . . . . d X c |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$
[go]$$
$$ ----------------|
$$ . . . . . . b . |
$$ . . . . X O a . |
$$ . . O . X O . O |
$$ . . . . X X O . |
$$ . . . . . d X c |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$[/go]
Locally, each of (a), (b), and (c) kills.
(a) and (b) are about the same.
(c) -- B has to be careful, because this involves B's liberties,
and B has to watch out later, if the (d) ladder becomes good for W.
So perhaps the placement (b) and clamp (a) are slightly better.
alone killed when I first looked at this but it left rather a lot of moves for white to play inside for threats later.
(a) for Black for the rest of the board ?
takes in sente -- miai of 
and 
:
takes in sente:
hane is not a correct move.