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Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:55 am
by Subotai
I am looking for a book that is a more updated version of 37 basic joseki from the elementary series. A book that ideally keeps to one volume and discusses the major joseki.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Re: Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:17 am
by oren
Why do you think 37 basic joseki is not up to date enough?
Re: Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:30 am
by RBerenguel
oren wrote:Why do you think 37 basic joseki is not up to date enough?
Probably because it's missing one fundamental joseki
/joke
Re: Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:35 am
by oren
RBerenguel wrote:oren wrote:Why do you think 37 basic joseki is not up to date enough?
Probably because it's missing one fundamental joseki
/joke
Good point. I forgot the title name myself.
Re: Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:06 am
by RBerenguel
oren wrote:RBerenguel wrote:oren wrote:Why do you think 37 basic joseki is not up to date enough?
Probably because it's missing one fundamental joseki
/joke
Good point. I forgot the title name myself.
I had to google it to be sure, but 37 is prime and I would have remembered that at least
Re: Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:54 am
by Subotai
I feel a lot of the moves are outdated as joseki has changed a bit these past few decades.
Re: Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:56 am
by Boidhre
Do you mean a heavily commented one like 38 Basic Joseki? Or a book showing you variations with minimum comments?
Re: Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:57 am
by DrStraw
Subotai wrote:I feel a lot of the moves are outdated as joseki has changed a bit these past few decades.
I don't know it is that josekis, at least at the kyu level, have changed as much as it is that news ones have been invented. But I would think that 38 Basic Joseki would be every bit as useful for the kyu player (and most dans) as any modern version.
Re: Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:40 pm
by Boidhre
DrStraw wrote:Subotai wrote:I feel a lot of the moves are outdated as joseki has changed a bit these past few decades.
I don't know it is that josekis, at least at the kyu level, have changed as much as it is that news ones have been invented. But I would think that 38 Basic Joseki would be every bit as useful for the kyu player (and most dans) as any modern version.
Probably it's biggest flaw is that it deals almost totally with the low approach to 3-4 and in kyu games the high approach is far more common. In terms of high approach pincers it only covers one of black's responses to the low one space pincer.
Re: Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:48 pm
by CnP
I guess "Essential Joseki" (Yutopian Enterprises) might be considered an updated 38 basic joseki in that it's a single volume survey of joseki - but in practice it's a more complicated book (or at least I find it to be) and I think 38 basic joseki is a good place to start (and Essential Joseki is out of print I think). I haven't read Robert's joseki books but they might be worth considering too, e.g.
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/EasyLearningJoseki.html
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:06 pm
by EdLee
How about Takao's ?
Re:
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:10 pm
by oren
EdLee wrote:How about Takao's ?
A book that ideally keeps to one volume and discusses the major joseki.
Doesn't keep to one volume, so I threw it out.
Re: Looking for a modern basic joseki book
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:05 pm
by Kirby
DrStraw wrote:I don't know it is that josekis, at least at the kyu level, have changed as much as it is that news ones have been invented.
Well, for example, this is no longer joseki:
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
However, in certain circumstances, it can still be the best move. So I think learning joseki, old or new, can help you to recognize good shapes. When you know details of why a "new joseki" is better than an "old joseki", you understand both better. I think it's interesting, and educational to go through the history of joseki as it changes.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:20 pm
by EdLee
oren wrote:Doesn't keep to one volume, so I threw it out.
Yes, but I don't know if Subotai knows about Takao's.
Regardless if he knows of its existence, maybe he'll change his mind about the
ideally one volume thing.
Maybe he thinks it's worth it. Better to give him the options to decide for himself.
I happen to find Takao (and its predecessor, Ishida) excellent.
So my preference is to suggest something nice.
Different strokes.
Re:
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:27 pm
by Boidhre
EdLee wrote:oren wrote:Doesn't keep to one volume, so I threw it out.
Yes, but I don't know if Subotai knows about Takao's.
Regardless if he knows of its existence, maybe he'll change his mind about the
ideally one volume thing.
Maybe he thinks it's worth it. Better to give him the options to decide for himself.
I happen to find Takao (and its predecessor, Ishida) excellent.
So my preference is to suggest something nice.
Different strokes.
I was curious about Takao vs Ishida. Easier for me to get a hold of Ishida.