[go]$$c Black to checkmate in three (oh sorry, wrong game).
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . OOO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . OX. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . . O . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is a game I'm playing against a bot so don't worry about helping me cheat. I have multiple concerns in the position: White splitting at C13 seems to be highly threatening to my top left group. Likewise, I have a weakness at C15. What's also concerning is the cut at F4 if I allow white to capture the the stones at D5. I would love to kill the D13 group starting with a move like E15 but I'm afraid that my position is too weak for this. What do you think? Perhaps a separate move altogether?
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...
You have so many weakness to defend that it's hard to decide. The cut at C13 can be severe, true, but white E6 would be so painful you very much want to capture that sooner rather than later... So can we find a way to protect against both?
$$c :w8: connect
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 4 X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 3 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . . O . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Why don't you finish the game and then post it for review? I'm sure there are things to talk about before this point, and you'll also have some idea of why your choice went right or wrong afterwards.
[go]$$c Black to checkmate in three (oh sorry, wrong game).
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . . O . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is a game I'm playing against a bot so don't worry about helping me cheat. I have multiple concerns in the position: White splitting at C13 seems to be highly threatening to my top left group. Likewise, I have a weakness at C15. What's also concerning is the cut at F4 if I allow white to capture the the stones at D5. I would love to kill the D13 group starting with a move like E15 but I'm afraid that my position is too weak for this. What do you think? Perhaps a separate move altogether?
Given your concerns, what are the three best candidate moves for Black that you see?
The Adkins Principle: At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
[go]$$c Black to checkmate in three (oh sorry, wrong game).
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . . O . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is a game I'm playing against a bot so don't worry about helping me cheat. I have multiple concerns in the position: White splitting at C13 seems to be highly threatening to my top left group. Likewise, I have a weakness at C15. What's also concerning is the cut at F4 if I allow white to capture the the stones at D5. I would love to kill the D13 group starting with a move like E15 but I'm afraid that my position is too weak for this. What do you think? Perhaps a separate move altogether?
Given your concerns, what are the three best candidate moves for Black that you see?
I'm torn between C13 and E6 which is why I posted the question. I would just post the whole game for review but I thought this made for an interesting puzzle and wanted to use it to learn something. C11 is also on my mind. I would consider C13 and E6 to be a form of miai as I'm almost certain my opponent will respond accordingly. Bki: Is that the way real Go players think? Goodness...
Edit: What do you think of giving up the top left and moving towards development in the top right?
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...
Bill Spight wrote:OK. C-13, E-06, and C-11. How would you rank them, and why?
From my perspective, I'm going to lose the top left or the bottom left. The bottom left corner looks like a better exchange for white and therefore I'm leaning towards E-06. Between C-11 and C-13? I like C-11 rather than the direct block
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...
[go]$$Bc Develop top right?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . . O . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
What do you think?
Well, I would take at E-06 first, then do something like K-13 after my opponent splits my top left. If white plays somewhere else, I'd probably defend the top left as well.
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...
Bill Spight wrote:OK. C-13, E-06, and C-11. How would you rank them, and why?
From my perspective, I'm going to lose the top left or the bottom left. The bottom left corner looks like a better exchange for white and therefore I'm leaning towards E-06. Between C-11 and C-13? I like C-11 rather than the direct block
OK, so your two top candidates are C-11 and E-06. I have a heuristic that may help you to compare the two. Treat them as miai, so that if you get one, they get the other.
In this case that produces these comparisons.
$$Bc Protect the bottom left?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O . . O . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
It does. Many thanks Bill! I appreciate Bki and skydyr's responses as well.
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...
Uberdude wrote:If there are two places you need to play then something has gone wrong earlier.
Would this be an indication that one is playing too thin?
Last edited by Joelnelsonb on Thu May 21, 2015 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...
So this whole idea of "shape" and making "proper shape": Is it the kinda thing, like learning to make life, that I'm supposed to learn, understand, get it under my belt and move on or is it more like attack and defense where I'll spend the rest of my life working on it?
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...
at 
, then 