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Who do you like and why?

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=13710

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Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:47 am
by globulon
Just curious to see what other people here think and how that lines up with my thinking. I'm curious which side you would prefer to have and what your reasoning is.

Black to move. [edit: No komi.]

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[go]$$c Who do you like and why?
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$$ | . . O . O X X . O . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . X X O O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . . O . . X . X O X O |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X . O . . X X X . |
$$ | . X . O . . X O O X . . . . O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . X . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , X O O O X , O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O O X X X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O X . . . . X X O O |
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Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:21 am
by hyperpape
Whose move is it?

Edit: wow, I am blind.

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:57 am
by skydyr
It's black to move, but what if anything is komi, and are there any prisoners?

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:57 am
by DrStraw
hyperpape wrote:Whose move is it?
Based on his comment "Black to move." I would guess it is black's.

EDIT: Forgot to answer the question:
Definitely white. The 4 black stones at K5 are dead and black needs to protect the top left group (G19 kills after it is isolated, which is almost is).

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:16 am
by Kirby
I like white.

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:37 pm
by skydyr
In the absence of answers to my questions, I too like white. Black's 4 stones don't have that much aji left that I can see, and white looks caught up without counting anything in the middle, which should favour white somewhat over black when it plays out.

Of course, black getting to C12 first is gigantic, but white has resources.

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:53 pm
by DrStraw
skydyr wrote:It's black to move, but what if anything is komi, and are there any prisoners?
Don't know about the komi but white has one more prisoner than black (count the stones).

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:00 pm
by Fedya
Black. He's got more certain territory, and it's not as if White is going to get much in the center, especially after something like C12.

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:18 pm
by DrStraw
Fedya wrote:
Black. He's got more certain territory, and it's not as if White is going to get much in the center, especially after something like C12.
I think exactly the opposite. White has more certain territory and white is likely to get quite a bit in the middle if he blocks off the top group in sente.

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:23 pm
by Shaddy
I think White is ahead on the board. I'd take White even without komi..

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:18 pm
by OtakuViking
White seems to be ahead. I don't see any super big point for black to spend his sente. So I'll take white.

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:23 pm
by globulon
Thanks for all the replies.

The answer:
The game is a castle game with Shusaku as white. Black resigned in this position. I posted the question because I feel like counting in a simple manner it looked like black was ahead to me. I counted the lower left as the most certain territory and with sente it seems that a play on the left side expands that corner and limits what white can do. Otherwise I didn't see a lot of place to white to make more territory. Even counting that the 4 black stones are dead (the commentary told me this) I still thought black was ahead on the board.

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:00 am
by Jhyn
At a glance I preferred black (with no komi). The lower left and left look bigger than anything white has, the four isolated have aji like H4 to catch a white stone, there is nothing significant in the center. Therefore the threat at the top and the cut on the right doesn't loo that significant.

After actually counting, it seems that white has much more certain territory than I thought. So with Black to move I am undecided, probably White if I really have to choose.

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:55 am
by Majordomo
I counted white ahead (with whatever flawed way I count) - but black's move will bring him to par with white, however I don't see a way for him to get more after that so he'll spend the rest of the game preventing white from getting anything (which is futile because white has a lot of potential so will get something I think). I'd play white and lose when my opponent plays endgame and I play 1 point gote moves.

- After reading the answer, cool, I guess that provided both players play the "right" endgame that black can't catch up to the advantage white has? Not the type of game where amateurs resign I don't think, since the scoring has to be rather close?

Re: Who do you like and why?

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:46 pm
by Fedya
Shows my positional judgment. :oops:
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