Life In 19x19

Up until a few months ago, I felt totally lost in a blitz game, and didn't like playing blitz at all. After watching a few of TMark's fast games though, I started to play using the same settings that he was using: 1 min + 3min/25 moves. This lets you play a very fast game, but also allows you to spend a bit more time in some sticky situations. I've been playing a lot of these games, and I no longer feel lost. I have a separate blitz account, and in the meantime, it's only a stone or two below my regular account. The thing is this: I enjoy these fast games alot. Although I get in 3 or 4 slow games in a week, they feel like hard work, whereas the blitz games are all fun. I'm getting in lots and lots of games, and I think I'm getting a better idea of the flow of the game; the tradeoffs and the payoffs you get for thick positions. Of course there's not too much reading involved in such games, but there are other benefits, aren't there? Or is my mind going to turn to jelly?

A guy I know got to 2d in a year by doing absolutely nothing but playing a lot of blitz games.

Another data point: I heard that Koreans play almost exclusively blitz until they're very strong.

So I doubt it will permanently rot your mind

I think the experience of blitz is good as long as you remember to read when you've got the time to in subsequent slow games. It is easy to play blitz for awhile, get used to not reading much, and then be lazy in reading when you actually have more time on the clock.

If you are careful to take the time to read and not be lazy during slow games when you play them, I think blitz is probably beneficial.

Shape, experience, and thinking fast are all benefits of blitz, I think. If you can learn to read fast during blitz games, you will probably be able to read further during normal ones... If you read during blitz, that is

I'm a big fan of blitz. I find it is a much easier way to get in a game or two quick and not be so concerned about how much time you're taking. So at least you're playing games!

I also have a blitz account, because I feel that is easier to keep them separated and not affect the level of each. Though the downside is that my blitz account now has a rank, and my normal one does not.

I sometimes do something similar, but my pace is 1 min, then 5 x 20 sec japanese byoyomi. I play these unrated. The "usual" 10 sec is too fast for me, the game degenerates into almost random clicking then. I plan to reduce my "comfort time" step by step.

I do not like canadian byoyomi, because I have to think about the clock too much. Japanese byoyomi is not ideal either because of its inflexibility, but at least I can concentrate on the game. The lack of Bonus Timing is the greatest impediment to me playing more these days.

I became much more comfortable with fast games after internalizing HKA's advice: "most people lose at blitz because they play too fast." It's counterintuitive, but you have to just calmly use your time.

I still don't seem to be as good at them as slow games, but I can play them without freaking out.

hyperpape wrote:I became much more comfortable with fast games after internalizing HKA's advice: "most people lose at blitz because they play too fast." It's counterintuitive, but you have to just calmly use your time.

At the last Go Congress that I was game recording (which was a couple of years now), I was extremely impressed watching Myungwan Kim 9p using his byo-yomi time. With 60 second periods it certainly wasn't what anyone would consider blitz, but he never even moved his hand into the bowl to pick up a stone until the very last 1 or 2 seconds, even for the simplest of responses. He would very calmly use all his time to explore various part of the board with his mind before making his move -- every time.

xed_over wrote:

hyperpape wrote:I became much more comfortable with fast games after internalizing HKA's advice: "most people lose at blitz because they play too fast." It's counterintuitive, but you have to just calmly use your time.

At the last Go Congress that I was game recording (which was a couple of years now), I was extremely impressed watching Myungwan Kim 9p using his byo-yomi time. With 60 second periods it certainly wasn't what anyone would consider blitz, but he never even moved his hand into the bowl to pick up a stone until the very last 1 or 2 seconds, even for the simplest of responses. He would very calmly use all his time to explore various part of the board with his mind before making his move -- every time.

This is always some thing I try and work on...using more of my time to actually think about the rest of the board, rather than just immediately make my move. Some times I'm more successful at it than other times.

It really does help, though. I think Araban did a post about that (or maybe a blog post). It makes a lot of sense and really does allow you to play better even when playing "blitz."

Edit - Found it. It was on his blog: http://ywchoe.com/?p=190

Update: My blitz rank has caught up with my turtle rank. Is this good news or bad news?

I find this thread really interesting. Up until now - I have been strongly in the camp of players that plays *slow and serious* games. In my mind, those two adjectives are bound together. You can't have one without the other.

But...

I also have major issues with stamina. Only my first game of the day is strong. My second game has a noticeable drop in strength (2 stones). Also - It is very rare that I play 20 online games in a month. some months as few as 10 or half a dozen!

This thread has me thinking of going to an internet cafe and playing nothing but blitz until I either die of exhaustion or they kick me out. I fully expect my rating to drop like a rock. but... maybe I should try new things.

daal wrote:Update: My blitz rank has caught up with my turtle rank. Is this good news or bad news?

Ha! Ended that 2 days later (at least temporarily) by getting my turtle account up to 5k

It's time for the curmudgeon to weigh in. I don't like biltz and do think playing a lot of blitz games seriously hurts your game or at least hinders your improvement. I occasionally watch blitz games on KGS and, unless the players are 4d+, its a pretty sad experience. Both players play a lot of bad moves they never would play if they took any time over their moves. Frequently they play moves to make a group safe that is already unconditionally alive. How often do you review a blitz game? Very seldom I'll bet because there are so many silly mistakes it isn't worth reviewing. Go is a game of pattern/shape recognition and memory. If you get away with certain moves in blitz games when your opponent doesn't have time to read out the refutation you are going to play the same moves in "regular" games. A move is tagged "works" or "doesn't work" in your memory, not "worked in a blitz game". And I've seen a correct move lead to failure because of subsequent blitz-silly mistakes. What are you learning from blitz play? You might say you enjoy it "just for fun" but I wonder whether the fun is in not being responsible for your mistakes.

gowan wrote:It's time for the curmudgeon to weigh in. I don't like biltz and do think playing a lot of blitz games seriously hurts your game or at least hinders your improvement. I occasionally watch blitz games on KGS and, unless the players are 4d+, its a pretty sad experience. Both players play a lot of bad moves they never would play if they took any time over their moves. Frequently they play moves to make a group safe that is already unconditionally alive. How often do you review a blitz game? Very seldom I'll bet because there are so many silly mistakes it isn't worth reviewing. Go is a game of pattern/shape recognition and memory. If you get away with certain moves in blitz games when your opponent doesn't have time to read out the refutation you are going to play the same moves in "regular" games. A move is tagged "works" or "doesn't work" in your memory, not "worked in a blitz game". And I've seen a correct move lead to failure because of subsequent blitz-silly mistakes. What are you learning from blitz play? You might say you enjoy it "just for fun" but I wonder whether the fun is in not being responsible for your mistakes.

Thanks for weighing in. Clearly you make a good point about the quality of moves in blitz games, but I'm not sure that I agree with your conclusion. For example, you say that certain moves are "tagged" in one's memory. Well, the moves that are tagged in my memory are typically moves that I've studied - and I doubt whether their success or failure in a blitz game changes my evaluation of them much. Invariably they don't pan out as they did in the sequence I studied, but if a studied sequence goes sour, I do often look at it afterwards to see what I missed.

I agree that go is a game of pattern and shape recognition and memory, and surely the surrounding stones impart differing properties on similar shapes, but just because a move works in a blitz game doesn't mean that I'm going to remember it... There are shapes for example that create eye shape for a weak running group. In a blitz game I'll play the shape; but that doesn't mean that I'd play the same shape in a regular game without reading it out.

For me, the most significant aspect of blitz is that I don't have such an emotional investment in my success, and I think this is having the effect of making my play less cowardly. As a result, I've been playing games that are exciting and interesting instead of plodding and uninspired. This is what is fun for me.

As far as learning goes, having gotten in quite a few games has helped me to appreciate such concepts as aji and thickness, and I've gotten much better at keeping calm under pressure. I think I'm also developing a better eye both for seeing the results of a tradeoff, and for seeing what parts of the board are critical. I believe that all of these things are reflected in my slower games as well.

gowan wrote:What are you learning from blitz play? You might say you enjoy it "just for fun" but I wonder whether the fun is in not being responsible for your mistakes.

Seriously?

Here's my proposal: Find two players of approximately equal strength (ideally beginners, maybe 15k or so?), ask one to play only blitz games, the other to play only slow games. Come back in 3 months and see who has improved more.