Life In 19x19

Those looking for Christmas prezzies may note that I have just passed the latest version of the GoGoD database (95000 games) and Names Dictionary (4200 entries) to SmartGo (and only there). Anders is hoping to release his version very soon.

This version contains some more new Go Seigen games (but more still to come next year), and - for the first time - some games provided by Go in which Chinese players of the 1930s start experimenting with New Fuseki (more of those next time as well).

Will it also be available on https://gogodonline.co.uk/ ?

I haven't decided yet.

John Fairbairn wrote:I haven't decided yet.

Perhaps I can help with the decision. If you make it available as a download of the SGF files, then I will buy it (-: If it's locked up in a proprietary format, then I won't buy it.

Reason: I want to use it on Linux with Kombilo, and occasionally I want to make printed game records with sgf2dg. In general I try to support open source software and open data formats.

For what it's worth, I still have the physical CD of GoGoD Winter 2008 on my shelf, and it's one of the best purchases I ever made as a go player. Thanks for all the great work!

Exactly. Individual SGF files (or one ZIP, from which they unpack) are essential. Proprietary files are useless.

I do not know in which format they come with SmartGo, but I would not need SmartGo so do not want to pay extra for what I do not need. I only need the SGFs and maybe the names dictionary etc. as HTM or PDF.

The decision has nothing to do with any of what is implied above. I haven't got the time or patience to deal with an online presence. I delegated that to a daughter on maternity leave. She goes back to work in January and likewise will be short of time. There are other factors.

Thanks John for the clarification. I'm sorry that I misinterpreted you. Your position is understandable, if slightly frustrating for some of your fans (-: I hope something can be worked out.

John,

I think it would be very sad if it turns out there is no way to continue to offer the database. While I think that GoGoD is a great add on for SmartGo, I also think that SmartGo is a limited interface to GoGoD. I have been eagerly waiting to see the latest fruits of all that you have been doing with historical games. GoGoD is a real treasure, even if it reflects a relatively minor part of your ever-impressive knowledge of our favorite game. Please do your best to find a solution to your production issues. As a devoted user since 2002, I have only four years to go to hit twenty years! Don't let me down at this point.

RobertJasiek wrote:but I would not need SmartGo so do not want to pay extra for what I do not need.

SmartGo costs less than GoGoD used to cost ten years ago. It costs less than three updates at the price from this summer, and is updated for a long time, so the cost is still probably lower.

Like others, I'd be happy to see SGFs if it's not too burdensome, but let's not make unreasonable complaints about the price.

Uploading a ZIP and changing a webpage info from "2017" to "2018" takes a few minutes. Time problems related to individual customer / payment handling are solved easily: Let SmartGo have and save the individual SGFs so that the user has them as such.

The only real problem I can imagine that might not be solved quickly is sorting out those SGFs depending on copyright of third person creators of specific SGFs / games.

RobertJasiek wrote:Uploading a ZIP and changing a webpage info from "2017" to "2018" takes a few minutes. Time problems related to individual customer / payment handling are solved easily: Let SmartGo have and save the individual SGFs so that the user has them as such.

The only real problem I can imagine that might not be solved quickly is sorting out those SGFs depending on copyright of third person creators of specific SGFs / games.

I doubt there's a technical reason that the games can't be saved as individual SGFs. Having them in a proprietary format gives users a reason to purchase SmartGo, which may be an aspect of the original agreement. You said that you do not need SmartGo, but this would be one reason to buy it In all seriousness, though, I get that you'd prefer SGF files, and that'd certainly be more convenient for some users. But I can also understand the rationale of someone trying to sell a piece of software, and using a collection of games in proprietary format as a selling point.

For what it's worth, SGF was invented by the creator of SmartGo, Anders Kierulf, in 1987 (http://www.red-bean.com/sgf/user_guide/#what), so I'm sure that he's aware that he could make the files available in SGF format.

Kirby wrote:SGF files, and that'd certainly be more convenient

More convenient is also an aspect but the major aspects are time for viewing, time for searching, time for editing, editing capabilities. With individual SGFs and GoWrite, it works. With proprietary files in any software or individual files in SmartGo, it does not work for me.

RobertJasiek wrote:

Kirby wrote:SGF files, and that'd certainly be more convenient

More convenient is also an aspect but the major aspects are time for viewing, time for searching, time for editing, editing capabilities. With individual SGFs and GoWrite, it works. With proprietary files in any software or individual files in SmartGo, it does not work for me.

Yep. SGF is a nice format.

John Fairbairn wrote:The decision has nothing to do with any of what is implied above. I haven't got the time or patience to deal with an online presence. I delegated that to a daughter on maternity leave. She goes back to work in January and likewise will be short of time. There are other factors.

...well, it was nice while it lasted. Nobody is obliged to keep legacy things going forever, just for some go players who won't move on and get with the new bigger picture. And it's true that the other factors are none of our business. And the only person who can judge how much time and patience you want to spend on the legacy customers is you.

Best of luck with your future endeavours.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has considered offering to do online distribution *for* you, though. A substantial proportion of the community here could probably do that in their sleep.

ahd wrote:(...) Nobody is obliged to keep legacy things going forever, just for some go players who won't move on and get with the new bigger picture. (...)

That's uncalled for (especially when, in my very humble opinion, the "new bigger picture" doesn't seem to offer any clear improvement while at the same time coming with clear drawbacks for the customer).
I'm glad Gogod existed as it did for years and I'd never dream of telling John Fairbairn what he should do or not do. That being said, your characterization of myself (and probably others) as dim-witted individuals who are unable to see the light is something I take issue with.