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Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 7: Early 3-3 invasion * 2

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:13 pm
by Gomoto
Why is the marked move a very bad idea?
White has to play at a instead of the marked stone at all costs.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 7: Early 3-3 invasion * 2

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:17 pm
by Gomoto
I thought it is good enough for black to get in move 1 (hane at the head of 3 stones).
But if white plays move 8 in this variation, a critical position arises on the board.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O 1 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . 2 3 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 7: Early 3-3 invasion * 2

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:25 pm
by Gomoto
The next moves are forced and black has to start this sequence at once. White plays at a,b or c but black has reached a lead early in the game.

Thats why the marked move was a bad idea!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 O O 3 . . O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 6 O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . 5 1 O a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . c O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
possible continuation:

Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 7: Early 3-3 invasion * 2

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:38 pm
by Gomoto
Additional Info:

Most of the time white should play the double hane instead of a.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X O a . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:42 pm
by EdLee
Hi Gomoto, Thanks.

For the less experienced who may not be able to read as far,
there's a nice heuristic in the early chapters of Bruce Wilcox's Contact Fights:
the :white: :white: :white: string has only 4 liberties ( v. 5 for the adjacent :black: :black: :black: ),
and he suggests it could be a warning for :white:,
and that :white: study the situation carefully
to decide if tenuki is wise for :white: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . .
$$ | . . X X O O O o . . .
$$ | . . O O o o o . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
( Of course, he emphasizes all these heuristics are merely guidelines, and extensive reading and global evaluation are key. )

Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 7: Early 3-3 invasion * 2

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:21 am
by Gomoto
The fuseki continues. This is not good for white. White should have played different Josekis.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 7: Early 3-3 invasion * 2

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:26 am
by Gomoto
But be aware that black should not play the marked stone in this fuseki. This is not a good move. The better options for black are the moves a,b or c.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . b . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 7: Early 3-3 invasion * 2

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:31 am
by Uberdude
Gomoto wrote:The fuseki continues. This is not good for white. White should have played different Josekis.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
However, check out this KGS 9d beating a KGS 6d as white with this opening (but double black 4-4).


Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 7: Early 3-3 invasion * 2

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:35 am
by Gomoto
If white wants to win it plays like this. This position is very good for white.
(black should not follow whites plan like this)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 7: Early 3-3 invasion * 2

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:35 am
by Uberdude
Gomoto wrote:The next moves are forced and black has to start this sequence at once. White plays at a,b or c but black has reached a lead early in the game.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 O O 3 . . O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 6 O B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . 5 1 O a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
Nice shortage of liberties tesuji with 7 there. Interestingly enough, I saw AQ play Yoda Norimoto a few days ago (unfortunately game now gone from WBaduk) and AQ as white played the hane block exchange above 7 before tenukiing and allowing black the painful hane at the head of the 3 stone wall (Yoda played marked stone as extend to hoshi though instead of keep pushing). At the time I thought it might be silly bot flitting, but if it was foresight to prevent the tesuji of 7 that's impressive! (AQ made a big centre but not big enough I think, until Yoda made some really dumb misread in yose and a bunch of his stones got captured on the 1st line).