Life In 19x19

I've long been both amused and puzzled by the way certain players get the lion's share of attention. The reasons for fans clustering like moths to a flame may seem obvious - their hero is a winner or top of the ratings list. But it's not that simple. Some flames seem to be ignored. Why?

25-year-old Tan Xiao has just won the Quzhou Lanke Cup. Impressive enough, but he has already also won the Chinese Individual, Ricoh, Mingren, Chunlan and Changqi events, as well as being a runner-up a few times.

Not quite as impressive as Ke Jie, whom he defeated to win the QL and against whom he has a very reasonable record.

Yet here he seems just to appear in lists of results. He doesn't get the ultimate accolade of an uberdude analysis. Even in China he seems to be given a low profile. He came up with just 5 pages on a Google search and most of those were results. Why no fandom? Is it because he's from an unfashionable area (Jilin Province)? Or is it because he doesn't play the celeb game as Ke Jie does?

Or have I just missed something?

When he won the Chunlan cup I noted he had been a top player for a while without yet winning an international title and his 9p (and Chinese rating #1 some years ago):

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12910&p=220962&hil ... ao#p220962

And although he won the edition of Changqi cup whose semi-finals I visited in Bangkok (but didn't join in the conga like Jiang Weijie), he lost in the early rounds of the next edition which I followed to see who would come to Cambridge for the semi-finals this year.

viewtopic.php?p=229977#p229977

Yes, but that illustrates my point - it's just listing a few dry facts. There's none of the passion or depth of coverage that other players have elicited.

You guys are way too fast with these news

I was just going to make note of Tan Xiao—defeating Mi Yuting, Lian Xiao, and Ke Jie consecutively is quite impressive.

John Fairbairn wrote:I've long been both amused and puzzled by the way certain players get the lion's share of attention. The reasons for fans clustering like moths to a flame may seem obvious - their hero is a winner or top of the ratings list. But it's not that simple. Some flames seem to be ignored. Why?

I think it is just that simple. Also, we can see that there was a five-year gap between his winning the Chunlan cup and his previous titles. I don't know, maybe there'll be more notice if he has more good results. He does seem to be in a bit of slump in 2018, though.

Could it be that there are so (too?) many excellent Chinese players that it is difficult for fans to follow them in detail? And whoever is at the top varies rather frequently; just as we are getting to know Ke Jie, say, he is no longer at the top.

Since around a decade or two, there is a large group of strong Chinese players with each one of them being able to grasp an international title, or a main national championship.
"We are more and less same level,it's difficult to predict which one will get on the throne next time"
I got that comment chatting with young Wang Lei himself at the WMSG in Beijing 2008.

In fact fans can get lost, forget one or the other when it changes so often and quickly. Between my Chinese friends opinion of who is the best vary a lot too! And each of them have a nice argument to prove his choice is best.
So you will surely find players arguing here that Tang Xiao is the best.
I think it's more a media thing, they need stars and not too many.
So then you know, the pretty or the big mouth or the politicaly correct... Not things always connected to the strength at go.

Quite, there's a bunch of top Chinese players who are all at the "win an international title or two or a few more domestic" level so I don't think Tan has been particularly ignored: there's no Shi Yue, Tang Weixing, Chen Yaoye, Zhou Ruiyang, Tuo Jiaxi, Jiang Weijie, Lian Xiao, or more recently Xie Erhao, Gu Zihao appreciation thread here. We've got an Iyama one because he's the stand out Japanese player, Park's been top in Korea for years, Ke Jie had a rapid rise, won lots of titles in succession, is a larger than life personality (good-looking, trash talking AlphaGo, going on TV shows, playing up the celebrity role) so is more than just a boring guy in a suit putting stones on a board slightly more successfully than the next one. (And yes I made a Mi Yuting thread because he did well recently with interesting games, and a little bit of a Shin Jinseo one).

What's more notable to me is that Iyama warrants two threads and has a veritable caravan of fans here who are eager to defend him whenever the issue of his playing strength against international competition is raised. I chalk it up to Japan having a higher mind share due to its history of promoting the game in the West and that Iyama had been able to hold all seven big domestic titles simultaneously against weak competition, which makes his achievement appear far more impressive than it actually is. Still, on balance, I think too much attention is being paid to Japan, by far the weakest of the three powerhouses and getting weaker all the time.

TheCannyOnion: Iyama only has 2 threads because of your tiresome posts like this.

Uberdude wrote:TheCannyOnion: Iyama only has 2 threads because of your tiresome posts like this.

How is it tiresome?

I'm merely pointing out the disparity in attention paid to various players. For someone who has never won an international major, Iyama receives out-sized attention when many others who have proved stronger are less fawned over.

TheCannyOnion wrote:

Uberdude wrote:TheCannyOnion: Iyama only has 2 threads because of your tiresome posts like this.

How is it tiresome?

I'm merely pointing out the disparity in attention paid to various players. For someone who has never won an international major, Iyama receives out-sized attention when many others who have proved stronger are less fawned over.

If you think that there are other players deserving of more attention compared to Iyama, why do you bash Iyama instead of writing about the other, more deserving players? You seem to embody that which you decry in your endless (albeit negative) fascination with Iyama!

I do like the irony inherent in spectator

Us: Discuss Iyama's ranking
Iyama: Wins title

As someone guilty of saying Japanese professionals get to play in 'fancy' tournaments myself (as some weak player), I daresay I now think any athlete or competitor's popularity is dependant not just on ability, but context.

ez4u wrote:

TheCannyOnion wrote:

Uberdude wrote:TheCannyOnion: Iyama only has 2 threads because of your tiresome posts like this.

How is it tiresome?

I'm merely pointing out the disparity in attention paid to various players. For someone who has never won an international major, Iyama receives out-sized attention when many others who have proved stronger are less fawned over.

If you think that there are other players deserving of more attention compared to Iyama, why do you bash Iyama instead of writing about the other, more deserving players? You seem to embody that which you decry in your endless (albeit negative) fascination with Iyama!

See, yours is a supremely bad attitude and, frankly, unnecessarily sensitive to perceived slights. Re-read my comments here, where did I "bash" Iyama? I'd love to have a rational discussion with you, but only if you are in a state of being less easily triggered.

This is a misunderstanding.

Others have been more. . . Passionate in their quest to find Iyama's 'true strength' (whatever that means). I mean I should probably go through years of training, become a pro and find my 'true strength' (5kyu or something) before that.

TheCannyOnion hasn't been so extreme in my perception, but the concept is nothing new (I wouldn't want to derail the thread but who am I to talk ).

Text can be misinterpreted without extra cues— please don't fight.

Dan level— focusing on the positive. . .

TheCannyOnion: about 90% of your posts on this forum consist in saying that Japanese players are weak and 5% say that Chinese players are strong. What's the point? If you dislike Japan and want to express that continuously on this forum, I find it sad because one of the things I like in go is that it's an international language that promotes friendship among people from all countries.

If that hypothesis is wrong and you just would like this forum to focus less on Japanese players and more on Chinese players, then we would appreciate that you help reestablish the balance by providing more information about Chinese players.