armpit approach to komoku
Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:28 pm
How do people feel about this nonsense?:
Elfv2 seems to have some slightly confused feelings about it (if we credit it with some feelings of course.)
At 100k+ playouts, Elf v2 wants to start with hoshi for 44.0% black win rate. komoku is only slightly worse at 43.7%. At a reasonable number of playouts, white responds to the polite komoku (top right as shown above) with the natural komoku in the upper left (facing the empty corner). If given enough playouts (~50k) white 2 is changed to a 3-3 in that corner (maybe because of the armpit hit?) But then for black 3, Elf soon finds the armpit hit, and at 100k+ playouts Elf thinks it get's black a 46.5% win rate.
ie. Black plays a very slightly suboptimal opening move, but if white plays a very natural next move then Elf thinks by playing something very strange looking black gets a better possition than the empty board!
It's not really clear to me that this isn't just a quirk in the network.
What does it mean?
The position has symetry across the diagonal which feels slightly creepy to me. whoever plays next in this corner will want to take the 3-3 point or 4-4 point.
if black takes 3-3 then white seems to play away, content with this exchange. Now if black plays a or b as he might otherwise to enclose the corner, then the exchange of the triangled stones is interesting. From my (limited) understanding, from a big enclosure, black would usually play 4-4 in response to the 3-4 invasion early in the game. Later in the game, if there's more support, then black might respond at 3-3 like this exchange.
If white wants to follow up (white has kind of prevented herself from a "normal" approach) white can consider c or d but the most frequent seems to be playing e, to which black responds at a.
If black plays 4-4 in response to the armpit hit then white can take 3-3 to default to all that lovely 3-3 invasions stuff. White also has the option to jump or extend along the side, so maybe this is better for white than an early 3-3 invasion.
My pro database hasn't got any occurances of this early in the game, but it's not right up to date.
Is anyone rushing out to try this in their games?
Any feelings?
Elfv2 seems to have some slightly confused feelings about it (if we credit it with some feelings of course.)
At 100k+ playouts, Elf v2 wants to start with hoshi for 44.0% black win rate. komoku is only slightly worse at 43.7%. At a reasonable number of playouts, white responds to the polite komoku (top right as shown above) with the natural komoku in the upper left (facing the empty corner). If given enough playouts (~50k) white 2 is changed to a 3-3 in that corner (maybe because of the armpit hit?) But then for black 3, Elf soon finds the armpit hit, and at 100k+ playouts Elf thinks it get's black a 46.5% win rate.
ie. Black plays a very slightly suboptimal opening move, but if white plays a very natural next move then Elf thinks by playing something very strange looking black gets a better possition than the empty board!
It's not really clear to me that this isn't just a quirk in the network.
What does it mean?
The position has symetry across the diagonal which feels slightly creepy to me. whoever plays next in this corner will want to take the 3-3 point or 4-4 point.
if black takes 3-3 then white seems to play away, content with this exchange. Now if black plays a or b as he might otherwise to enclose the corner, then the exchange of the triangled stones is interesting. From my (limited) understanding, from a big enclosure, black would usually play 4-4 in response to the 3-4 invasion early in the game. Later in the game, if there's more support, then black might respond at 3-3 like this exchange.
If white wants to follow up (white has kind of prevented herself from a "normal" approach) white can consider c or d but the most frequent seems to be playing e, to which black responds at a.
If black plays 4-4 in response to the armpit hit then white can take 3-3 to default to all that lovely 3-3 invasions stuff. White also has the option to jump or extend along the side, so maybe this is better for white than an early 3-3 invasion.
My pro database hasn't got any occurances of this early in the game, but it's not right up to date.
Is anyone rushing out to try this in their games?
Any feelings?
) A 5% drop for Leela 11 probably indicates an error, a 5% drop for Elf2 may be the equivalent of a raised eyebrow. {shrug}