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shapes under my radar

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:25 pm
by Gomoto
I used to play 3 of the 4 most popular pro choices in this shape in my games, but the runner-up got overlooked by me up until now.

White to play:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . O . . . . .
$$ . . . X X . O . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Re: shapes under my radar

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:43 pm
by Gomoto
I think it is quite easy to spot it in this game due to the location of the shape on the board. (But the move is also a good candidate move in many other less obvious positions.)

Black to play:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . O . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X O O O O X X . X , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O X X X O . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O O . X O X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Kobayashi Koichi, 9d - O Meien, 9d, B+5.5 (Komi 6.5)
37th Tengen, Final Preliminary, Group Final, 2010-11-11

Re: shapes under my radar

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:08 pm
by Bill Spight
Gomoto wrote:
I think it is quite easy to spot it in this game due to the location of the shape on the board. (But the move is also a good candidate move in many other less obvious positions.)

Black to play:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . O . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X O O O O X X . X , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O X X X O . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O O . X O X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Kobayashi Koichi, 9d - O Meien, 9d, B+5.5 (Komi 6.5)
37th Tengen, Final Preliminary, Group Final, 2010-11-11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Checking extension/pincer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . O . 1 . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X O O O O X X . X , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O X X X O . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O O . X O X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In its commentary Elf prefers :b59: to a by 5%. Even though the ladder works. ;)

Edit: However
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Elf's mainline variation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . O . 1 . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X O O O O X X . X , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O X X X O . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O O . X O X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Elf has Black play there later, even when the ladder does not work.

Re: shapes under my radar

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:24 am
by xela
Gomoto wrote:I used to play 3 of the 4 most popular pro choices in this shape in my games, but the runner-up got overlooked by me up until now.
Sorry, only three moves pop into my mind, including the one you're overlooking. So which move am I overlooking?
White to play:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . c O a . . . .
$$ . . . X X b O . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Re: shapes under my radar

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:26 am
by Uberdude
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . d . . .
$$ . . . c O a . . . .
$$ . . . X X b O . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
The jump at d makes most sense when it also a useful move with regards to what is going on to the right, and the white attachment stone can then be viewed as a useful forcing move that interferes with black's jumping alongside (2 interesections to the left of d) or peeping at a. e.g. this joseki-ish:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ , . 3 . . . X . . . |
$$ . 4 2 . 1 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]