Life In 19x19

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:25 am**

While watching one of BadukDoctor's videos, Katago suggested me to take a closer look at this shape:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ . . X . . . X X X O . . | $$ . . . . . . X O O X X . | $$ . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ------------------------+[/go]

The shape is a continuation of this joseki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . X . . . X X . O . . | $$ . . . . . . X O O . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ------------------------+[/go]

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:27 am**

Let us take this postion from a pro game as a reference:

Yu Zhengqi, 7d - Shida Tatsuya, 7d, W+1.5 (Komi 6.5)
62nd NHK Cup, Round 1, 2014-03-03

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O X O . X . X X X O . O X X O O . | $$ | . . . X . . . X O X O . . X X O X . . | $$ | . . . X . X X O O O O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . X . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:31 am**

The pros play all the time this continuation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O X O . X . X X X O . O X X O O . | $$ | . . . X . . . X O X O . . X X O X . . | $$ | . . . X . X X O O O O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . X . . . X X X O 3 . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:34 am**

But now take note of the strong white positions on the outside of the shape:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O X O . X . X X X O . O X X O O . | $$ | . . . X . . . X O X O . . X X Q X . . | $$ | . . . X . X X O O O O O . . . Q . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . Q . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . . . | $$ | . Q . Q . . . . . X . . . X X X Q . . | $$ | . . . . . Q . . . . . . . X O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:37 am**

White can surprise black with this alternative if there is such strong support on the outside.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O X O . X . X X X O . O X X O O . | $$ | . . . X . . . X O X O . . X X O X . . | $$ | . . . X . X X O O O O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . X . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

: alt.JPG (78.5 KiB) Viewed 8366 times

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:41 am**

Example continuation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . X . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O X O . X . X X X O . O X X O O . | $$ | . . . X . . . X O X O . . X X O X . . | $$ | . . . X . X X O O O O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . X . 7 . X X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 5 4 O 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

: alt2.JPG (79.33 KiB) Viewed 8363 times

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:45 am**

Just be careful. The usefullness of this alternative move depends a lot on the surrounding position.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:50 am**

In this game by Baduk Doctor the move would have been a good alternative too (7:24 in the video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Rb25T ... e=youtu.be

: alt3.JPG (74.89 KiB) Viewed 8348 times

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:53 am**

Gomoto wrote:The pros play all the time this continuation:

Not all, there was a Go Seigen game in one of JF's books where they (can't recall if Go or opponent, but probably Go) had the hane resistance, or at least it was talked about in the commentary. But yes, it is an alternative we shouldn't neglect to consider, and pros probably do suffer from too much autopilot. However, there could be a selection bias in that if the hane is a good resistance and black is aware of that he won't cut in the corner but immediately play the 2nd line descent.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:00 am**

Good old Go Seigen, always a pleasure to meet him again.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:02 am**

Two continuations:

: alt4.JPG (75.42 KiB) Viewed 8350 times

: alt5.JPG (75.36 KiB) Viewed 8349 times

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:06 am**

Just to be clear. My intention is not at all to disrespect the Pros. I just post because I like unusual moves. A usual move would be of less interest to me, as it is already widely known.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:12 am**

The earliest example in GoGoD, B+R.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Zhou Pingqiang (White) - Lin Zhihan Taiwan Guoshou League 2007-07-24 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 0 . O O 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 5 . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . X O X 4 . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . X 9 X O X 6 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:36 am**

In my 105.000 game database there are two more games with this move and the 4th line expansion (and 3 with the third line expansion).
This is one of them:

Fan Tingyu 9d - Motoki Katsuya 8d, W+Resign (Komi 6.5)
20th Nongshim Cup, Game 4, 2018-10-19

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . . . X . , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . X X . . . . X O X . . | $$ | . . X . O X . X O . . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

Under the radar

Under the radar

Re: Under the radar

Re: Under the radar

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Re: Under the radar

Re: Under the radar

Re: Under the radar

Re: Under the radar

Re: Under the radar

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Re: Under the radar

Re: Under the radar

Re: Under the radar