More Shibano AI magic
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:54 am
I think this will appeal especially to Andrew with his AI Gospel, although it may mean him getting out his chisel again and some fresh slabs of stone.
In the beginning was the Word. Well, yes - but what if the word was the wrong one? It's a bit like setting off on a journey with the map upside down.
In his latest musings on why certain fuseki plays have disappeared almost overnight, thanks to AI, Shibano Toramaru has given me the first glimmer as to what may be going on with all these shimaris from the hoshi stone we keep seeing. It seems as if they may not be shimaris after all.
His starting point is the position below, and he is looking at why the triangled extension has disappeared. (In passing, I was surprised to see the one-space shimari in the lower right. I was expecting A. In fact when I checked with katago it seems this tight shimari is the new black. Bots really are fickle!)
I'm not going into Shibano's specifics on the extension, but, amongst other things, either (a) the extension is liable to end up on a "non-urgent point" once Black plays an approach move on the lower left side (i.e. White would be extending from a safe position) or (b) Black can invade at the 3-3 (D) and give White thickness. That (b) would have bothered pros pre-AI, and may still leave pros like Shibano a bit queasy (he calls this development "remarkable") but he notes that bots don't mind and instead then play moves like E. He sums this up in general terms by saying that when bots give the opponent thickness they respond by playing a fast-paced game.
But back to shimaris and non-shimaris. Shibano explains why moves like the triangled extension were played in the first place. They were following the mantra: first occupy the open corners, second play a shimari or kakari, and third extend.
But he also observes that this proverb arose in the days when nobody played on the 4-4 point. And it doesn't really tell you what to do with a 4-4. An idea has developed that a 4-4 finishes off the corner in one move, and so once you have played it you can extend. This is what is generally thought of as a fast-paced game. But actually it seems that what AI is teaching us is that a 4-4 needs a shimari. So, while we can still talk about a shimari from a 4-4 stone, we need to recognise that it's something quite different from a shimari from komoku. For one thing it's territorially deficient.
To highlight this difference, a term Shibano also uses of AI-favoured moves like B and C (instead of the wide extension) is kamae - a construction move. That's useful because it brings in a whole host of different associations. As one example, a kamae can of itself be thought of often as an extension.
Kamae moves are mentioned a lot in Japanese commentaries, though not usually this early in the game, but have not been highlighted in the west. I suspect that may be because each translator renders it in a different way, so it just disappears into the morass of other words. Robert Jasiek is the only person I can recall picking up on it here (apart from myself, of course) but I haven't actually read his books, and from what he has said on L19 I think his version of "construction" may be rather different.
In fact even Japanese players can require explanations of kamae. You may be surprised at the definitions in, for example, the Nihon Ki-in's terms dictionary. Two examples in the diagram below:
Starting with the definition of kamaeru as "to set oneself up in good order* by making shape" it says that the White triangled stone in the lower left is a one-space shimari (ikkenjimari), but given the idea that it is setting things in order, we call it kamaeru." For the example on the right it says the kamae triangled move is superior to the sagari down towards the edge because a White peep at the triangle wold be too severe. [*a bit of a wishy-washy phrase but the term behind it, seibi, refers to the sort of thing you do as preventive maintenance, for example servicing your car to keep it in good running order to avoid repair bills]
Hayashi Yutaka also gives the lower-right example but adds also the one in the upper left. And he gives the definition of kamae as "a move that settles oneself in order to avid incursion by the opponent." Of course kamaeru is a normal word in everyday Japanese and so is used in go in extended ways with all its other associations, but that's a good starting point.
Obviously Shibano is talking to Japanese people in their own language, and can make assumptions and use associations that don't apply to us directly. But for us my interpretation is that at the very least we have to recognise that there are different kinds of shimari. In Robert's style you might call them Shimari I and Shimari II (and maybe Shimari III if the Nihon Ki-in example above disconcerts you), and a shimari from a 4-4 stone is a unique type, possibly deserving its own name. In addition, whatever you call it, in practice you should try to view it through the prism of a kamae move when you see it in AI play.
Furthermore, there may well be a Fast Play I and a Fast Play II. The "fast play" referred to be E at the top seems to be quite different from the wide-extension kind of fast play, not least because one of its attributes may be an emphasis on combating thickness. Maybe that demands a new term, too.
Over now to our Master Chiseller!
In the beginning was the Word. Well, yes - but what if the word was the wrong one? It's a bit like setting off on a journey with the map upside down.
In his latest musings on why certain fuseki plays have disappeared almost overnight, thanks to AI, Shibano Toramaru has given me the first glimmer as to what may be going on with all these shimaris from the hoshi stone we keep seeing. It seems as if they may not be shimaris after all.
His starting point is the position below, and he is looking at why the triangled extension has disappeared. (In passing, I was surprised to see the one-space shimari in the lower right. I was expecting A. In fact when I checked with katago it seems this tight shimari is the new black. Bots really are fickle!)
I'm not going into Shibano's specifics on the extension, but, amongst other things, either (a) the extension is liable to end up on a "non-urgent point" once Black plays an approach move on the lower left side (i.e. White would be extending from a safe position) or (b) Black can invade at the 3-3 (D) and give White thickness. That (b) would have bothered pros pre-AI, and may still leave pros like Shibano a bit queasy (he calls this development "remarkable") but he notes that bots don't mind and instead then play moves like E. He sums this up in general terms by saying that when bots give the opponent thickness they respond by playing a fast-paced game.
But back to shimaris and non-shimaris. Shibano explains why moves like the triangled extension were played in the first place. They were following the mantra: first occupy the open corners, second play a shimari or kakari, and third extend.
But he also observes that this proverb arose in the days when nobody played on the 4-4 point. And it doesn't really tell you what to do with a 4-4. An idea has developed that a 4-4 finishes off the corner in one move, and so once you have played it you can extend. This is what is generally thought of as a fast-paced game. But actually it seems that what AI is teaching us is that a 4-4 needs a shimari. So, while we can still talk about a shimari from a 4-4 stone, we need to recognise that it's something quite different from a shimari from komoku. For one thing it's territorially deficient.
To highlight this difference, a term Shibano also uses of AI-favoured moves like B and C (instead of the wide extension) is kamae - a construction move. That's useful because it brings in a whole host of different associations. As one example, a kamae can of itself be thought of often as an extension.
Kamae moves are mentioned a lot in Japanese commentaries, though not usually this early in the game, but have not been highlighted in the west. I suspect that may be because each translator renders it in a different way, so it just disappears into the morass of other words. Robert Jasiek is the only person I can recall picking up on it here (apart from myself, of course) but I haven't actually read his books, and from what he has said on L19 I think his version of "construction" may be rather different.
In fact even Japanese players can require explanations of kamae. You may be surprised at the definitions in, for example, the Nihon Ki-in's terms dictionary. Two examples in the diagram below:
Starting with the definition of kamaeru as "to set oneself up in good order* by making shape" it says that the White triangled stone in the lower left is a one-space shimari (ikkenjimari), but given the idea that it is setting things in order, we call it kamaeru." For the example on the right it says the kamae triangled move is superior to the sagari down towards the edge because a White peep at the triangle wold be too severe. [*a bit of a wishy-washy phrase but the term behind it, seibi, refers to the sort of thing you do as preventive maintenance, for example servicing your car to keep it in good running order to avoid repair bills]
Hayashi Yutaka also gives the lower-right example but adds also the one in the upper left. And he gives the definition of kamae as "a move that settles oneself in order to avid incursion by the opponent." Of course kamaeru is a normal word in everyday Japanese and so is used in go in extended ways with all its other associations, but that's a good starting point.
Obviously Shibano is talking to Japanese people in their own language, and can make assumptions and use associations that don't apply to us directly. But for us my interpretation is that at the very least we have to recognise that there are different kinds of shimari. In Robert's style you might call them Shimari I and Shimari II (and maybe Shimari III if the Nihon Ki-in example above disconcerts you), and a shimari from a 4-4 stone is a unique type, possibly deserving its own name. In addition, whatever you call it, in practice you should try to view it through the prism of a kamae move when you see it in AI play.
Furthermore, there may well be a Fast Play I and a Fast Play II. The "fast play" referred to be E at the top seems to be quite different from the wide-extension kind of fast play, not least because one of its attributes may be an emphasis on combating thickness. Maybe that demands a new term, too.
Over now to our Master Chiseller!
) That really happened in the 20th century and late 19th century, as the 4-4 and other 4th line moves came into vogue. As Shibano points out, quoting what JF says, "An idea has developed that a 4-4 finishes off the corner in one move, and so once you have played it you can extend." That's opening dogma as I learned it, and as I could have picked up from looking at professional games. OC, the extension was seen as desirable, but conversely, there was no efficient way to make territory out of the corner, as you point out below. Whether you add a second stone at the 3-3, the 3-4, or the 3-5, the 4-4 stone ends up being awkwardly placed. Not that we don't make those plays in certain situations, OC. 
as a 5-3 and 
as the 3-3 invasion, and 
as the 4-5 keima. 
As usual, Go Seigen got there first. 
However, he does say that he prefers the 5-4 high approach over the 3-3 or 3-4.
The low side extension, which was the most popular play, seems that it might be showing that effect, but has been played recently in high level play. Quien sabe? Maybe he would have done better to choose Kobayashi II as his example.