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 Post subject: White to play. Easy or Difficult?
Post #1 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:48 am 
Gosei

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White to play.

What is the best move?
How difficult was it for you to find? (X out of 10)
Would you discover the move in a casual game? (yes / no)
Have fun!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X . O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | . B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: White to play. Easy or Difficult?
Post #2 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:51 am 
Lives in gote

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KGS: Tryss
A10 would be my best move

As this is a tesuji I solved several time, I found it immediatly. Still, I needed to spend some time to verify that it indeed works.

But yeah, I would have fond this in a casual game


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 Post subject: Re: White to play. Easy or Difficult?
Post #3 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:02 am 
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I am under the impression that C11 works as well, though I didn't spend the time analysing whether it is superior to A10 or not. As a 3kyu EGF the difficulty of finding this was perhaps 4/10.

I also am quite sure that I would have spotted this in a casual game, provided that it isn't a blitz game.

EDIT: As Tryss pointed out, my move actually results in a ko. I guess I should revisit my claim that I'd have found this in a casual game :)


Last edited by Farodin on Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: White to play. Easy or Difficult?
Post #4 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:22 am 
Lives in gote

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KGS: Tryss
Farodin wrote:
I am under the impression that C11 works as well, though I didn't spend the time analysing whether it is superior to A10 or not. As a 3kyu EGF the difficulty of finding this was perhaps 4/10.

I also am quite sure that I would have spotted this in a casual game, provided that it isn't a blitz game.


I think it's ko : C11 A8 A7 A10 then white capture first


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 Post subject: Re: White to play. Easy or Difficult?
Post #5 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:45 am 
Beginner
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Tryss wrote:
Farodin wrote:
I am under the impression that C11 works as well, though I didn't spend the time analysing whether it is superior to A10 or not. As a 3kyu EGF the difficulty of finding this was perhaps 4/10.

I also am quite sure that I would have spotted this in a casual game, provided that it isn't a blitz game.


I think it's ko : C11 A8 A7 A10 then white capture first


You're absolutely right! Looks like I'm a bit out of practice :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: White to play. Easy or Difficult?
Post #6 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:05 am 
Honinbo

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Tygem: 커비라고해
Whether or not I'd see this in a game depends a lot on my mental state. Sometimes when I'm out of it, I can miss something very simple like a snapback or something. When I'm not tired and feel focused and sharp, it makes a big difference.

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 Post subject: Re: White to play. Easy or Difficult?
Post #7 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:09 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1700
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Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
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OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
My processsss

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W success (but)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X 5 O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 3 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 2 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 1 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W failure
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X 3 O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 2 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | . B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 1 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W success (and solution)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X . O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 1 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 2 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 3 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X . O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 1 2 X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 3 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X . O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 1 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 3 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 2 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | 2 X . O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 1 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 5 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 3 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


So for me it took 3 variations to find the move and 3 more to check, with depth of reading at most 5. I call it medium.
I hope I would find it in a game. I would definitely spend an overtime on making sure I have the best move in such a game deciding situation.

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 Post subject: Re: White to play. Easy or Difficult?
Post #8 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:08 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9115
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Knotwilg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W failure
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X 3 O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 2 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | . B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 1 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]




This one doesn't seem like failure:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W failure continuation
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X 3 O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 2 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 5 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 1 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


If there's this marked exchange, then it's failure, I think:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W failure
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | 3 O W O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X B O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 2 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | . X X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 1 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

_________________
be immersed

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 Post subject: Re: White to play. Easy or Difficult?
Post #9 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:15 am 
Beginner
User avatar

Posts: 17
Location: Leuven, Belgium
Liked others: 12
Was liked: 5
Rank: EGF 3kyu
Universal go server handle: Farodin
Knotwilg wrote:
My processsss

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W success (but)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X 5 O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 3 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 2 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 1 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W failure
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X 3 O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 2 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | . B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 1 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W success (and solution)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X . O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 1 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 2 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 3 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X . O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 1 2 X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 3 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X . O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 1 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 3 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 2 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Variation
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | 2 X . O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 1 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 5 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 3 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


So for me it took 3 variations to find the move and 3 more to check, with depth of reading at most 5. I call it medium.
I hope I would find it in a game. I would definitely spend an overtime on making sure I have the best move in such a game deciding situation.


As Kirby already pointed out while I was busy writing this, in your failure diagram, white has enough liberties to give atari to the black stones (I assume it was an oversight):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W success (but only because black messed up)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X 3 O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 2 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 5 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 1 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


However, black has a stronger response:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W black wins the capturing race
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | 7 O 3 O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X 2 O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 4 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | 5 B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 1 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 8 . 6 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


What if white tries to be sneaky with 3?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W still failure for white
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 6 5 O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | 3 O 4 O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | . X 2 O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | 8 . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | . B X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | 1 O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W still failure for white (cont.)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | 1 X O O X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X . X X X . O . O O . . . O . |
$$ | 3 X X O X O O X . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | X . X X O O X X . X X X . X X X X O . |
$$ | . X X O O O X . O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 . 2 X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O O . . O O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O X X X O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O O X . X . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . X . . . X O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: White to play. Easy or Difficult?
Post #10 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:31 am 
Gosei
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Quite so! So I missed the most important reason why the failure failed. :)

As usual there's much more to tsumego than solving it.


This post by Knotwilg was liked by: Gomoto
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