Life In 19x19

Posted: **Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:31 pm**

Hi, I played this on KGS last night, and was reasonably happy, despite losing. I lost my way a bit in the middle of the game, and seemed to lose sight of what I was trying to do, any pointers would be greatly appreciated. I have put my thoughts down as I remembered them from during the game, and a few that I had after:

Thanks, fwiffo, for the very clear posting instructions!

Posted: **Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:47 am**

6: Yes it is bad in this case.
13: The relationship between G17 and L17 is not good; White can break through with H16 or K16. Furthermore he has the connection at L18 available, so this move in fact hardly pressures White at all.
16: Now you see the consequence; J15 is already damaged.
27: Too slow. Gives you little.
29: No, C6 is fine and is better than D10.
41: Cutting through only hurts your F10 group. It was once strong, but now weak after 46.
65: Too slow, just 1 stone.
67: Too slow.
69: Too slow.
71: Too slow. Your group is safe.
78: Consider P5, a move that splits O3 and R6.
85: Too slow.
90: It's safe.
93: Nope this move is better. I think L4 looks even better though.
103: Too slow, is one stone really that valuable?
109: Too greedy, yes you should have left them alone.
115: Too slow. Because White played very badly after you extracted the group from the jaws of death, you have a chance to bully White (sealing White and forcing him to make two eyes on the left is a good thing). However this move is too clunky. K8 looks better.
127: C5 >>>>> C4. B4 punishes C4 appropriately.
137: This forces White to save J8. You could J7 and kill it.
139: Too slow.
141: Too slow, it's already connected so what's the point? It just forces White to strengthen.
143: Too slow.
147: Too slow.
149: Too slow, your group doesn't just have two eyes, it has territory on the left.
151: Too slow.
167: Very bad endgame, just connect at P18, which allows for R19 in the future.
187: Too slow.

Okay I'll stop here. I was about to post overall things you could improve on in this game, but looking at my comments I think it's pretty clear what your weakness was in this game.

Posted: **Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:59 am**

(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[1500]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]PW[mizuda]PB[bleep69]WR[12k]BR[12k]DT[2010-11-16]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[mizuda [12k]: hi gg
bleep69 [12k]: hi gg
]RE[W+7.50];B[pp]BL[1492.891];W[qd]WL[1493.3];B[dd]BL[1488.358];W[dp]WL[1490.764];B[od]BL[1480.649];W[pc]WL[1478.421]C[I thought this was regarded as bad, as it forces B to strengthen, or does that apply more to a 4-4 corner?
JB: You are correct: it is bad in both instances because black gets a comfortable extension with easy eye space. And that is not a good result for white who started with the first stone in the corner.];B[oc]BL[1477.749];W[qf]WL[1473.6];B[kc]BL[1468.234]C[JB: L16 might be a tad better...];W[ic]WL[1469.605];B[gc]BL[1458.413]C[Trying to help my corner stone at the same time as pressuring W...];W[mc]WL[1468.222]C[Only to have the pressure returned.](;B[ie]BL[1435.813]C[JB: This move leaves you with more isolated groups.
When fighting starts, it is good to have your stones connected and his stones separated. If is not good for you to introduce another stone that is not connected to anything.
Your weakest group is the P16/P17 stones, becasue they are close to his strongest stones. They should be your top priority. See variations];W[jd]WL[1465.292];B[kd]BL[1429.835];W[je]WL[1463.221];B[me]BL[1400.574]C[JB: The right idea. N16 would be abetter way to do it.];W[ld]WL[1453.663];B[le]BL[1389.091];W[ke]WL[1445.657];B[lc]BL[1378.957];W[md]WL[1443.556];B[mb]BL[1367.863];W[hd]WL[1439.361];B[gd]BL[1359.766];W[he]WL[1430.103];B[ge]BL[1354.083];W[if]WL[1427.354](;B[dj]BL[1313.964]C[I wanted to approach at C6, but was fairly sure he would pincer and work his way up into the top left from that, so I hung back. Is this the right sort of thinking?
JB: No. It is almost 180 degrees off.
You are strong on the top left. You don't mind if he has one or two stones approaching it, especially if you have a stone at C6 that separates them from their friends. Indeed, you often want to force him toward your strength. See variation.];W[ck]WL[1418.094];B[cj]BL[1308.687];W[ch]WL[1410.045];B[ce]BL[1278.829]C[Same reasoning as my G17 stone - attack and defend.];W[eh]WL[1403.161];B[fj]BL[1261.77];W[bi]WL[1389.512];B[bj]BL[1255.004]C[Split the groups...];W[gf]WL[1387.707];B[ff]BL[1219.39];W[gg]WL[1379.189];B[fg]BL[1215.28];W[fh]WL[1375.515];B[gh]BL[1209.937];W[gi]WL[1373.866];B[hh]BL[1205.672];W[fi]WL[1371.24];B[cn]BL[1158.795]C[I wanted to attack the top centre group with J13, but was also worried that my B10 group was a tad fragile. Was this the right call?
JB: It seems a bit loose. I'd play C8 or D8.];W[co]WL[1361.138];B[dn]BL[1104.029]C[bleep69 [12k]: sorry, my connection is lagging...

JB: Bad play by him. making your weak extension stronger. Now you probably can be assured of eye space over the dead body at C9.];W[cc]WL[1357.473];B[dc]BL[1096.633];W[db]WL[1353.784];B[eb]BL[1092.819];W[da]WL[1352.455];B[bc]BL[1056.613];W[bb]WL[1331.961];B[cd]BL[1048.312];W[ea]WL[1320.857];B[fb]BL[1010.568];W[bd]WL[1308.712];B[cb]BL[1004.677];W[ca]WL[1285.69];B[cc]BL[997.668];W[bf]WL[1270.25];B[be]BL[994.172];W[cf]WL[1269.086](;B[df]BL[985.776]C[JB: You have defended the corner well, but make a slight misstep here. See variation];W[dg]WL[1267.329];B[ef]BL[967.153]C[Should I have played away here? It felt small at the time, but I also wanted to keep his eyespace limited in case of a later attack there. Looking now, it seems he is already fine in that area...
JB: It is small and it is gote. If you have to protect your D14 stone, it suggests that you should not have played it there. Tenuki to big points in the bottom half of the board.];W[eg]WL[1258.754];B[el]BL[950.164]C[JB: A good decision to tenuki, though it is a bit unenterprising to tenuki there. E4 is way better.];W[fq]WL[1231.432]C[mizuda [12k]: np
];B[pj]BL[918.237]C[Was all at sea with this - had no idea what the best move in this situation was...?
JB: This seems too far, because R14 is solid. I might have played R7.];W[qi]WL[1226.858]C[JB: Terrible play by him, encouraging your relatively weak stone to become stronger. He should have approached the one remaining corner.]TR[qn][nq];B[qj]BL[913.308];W[nq]WL[1200.985](;B[lq]BL[899.198]C[JB: This starts too many isolated groups. See variation.];W[qn]WL[1198.589]C[This is the first time I recall seeing this response, and wasn't sure how to handle it. Much more used to W running out to O5 here, which I thought was going to work nicely for me. Sadly, he failed to comply.];B[pn]BL[858.384];W[qo]WL[1188.944](;B[po]BL[843.789];W[qq]WL[1186.973];B[pq]BL[840.036];W[qp]WL[1180.497];B[np]BL[830.62](;W[mp]WL[1178.427];B[mq]BL[818.981];W[no]WL[1172.012];B[op]BL[815.229];W[lp]WL[1166.131];B[nr]BL[760.064]C[This seemed a waste of a move, but I saw things getting hairy and wanted to consolidate. Too slow? Looking now, R7 looks much bigger.
JB: I think it is best. If he goes there it gets ugly, for he would be threatening both L3 and Q2.
**** END COMMENTS ****];W[kq]WL[1163.573];B[mo]BL[746.916]C[Grrrr. R7 still looks nicer.
JB: L4 or J3 look even more nice. You built strength with the cautious move at O2; now use that strength to hurt something bigger than one stone.];W[lo]WL[1154.488];B[mn]BL[744.78];W[ln]WL[1153.085];B[mm]BL[725.537];W[pm]WL[1140.431];B[om]BL[716.773];W[pl]WL[1138.564];B[ol]BL[712.601];W[gj]WL[1124.277];B[fk]BL[693.308];W[gk]WL[1109.408];B[gl]BL[682.639];W[fm]WL[1108.365];B[fl]BL[669.28];W[ih]WL[1091.884];B[hi]BL[623.614]C[Looked at saving these stones because I thought that W's G11 group could be killed, failing to notice that it had adequate eyespace on the left. Should I have left these to die? I'm not sure where else I would have played at this point though. I was beginning to feel that W was reasonably ahead.];W[hk]WL[1087.037];B[ii]BL[609.77];W[jh]WL[1083.176];B[jj]BL[583.36];W[ki]WL[1063.302];B[jk]BL[543.322];W[hn]WL[1058.466]C[W begins to enclose a huge area in the bottom, which previously I thought would be easy ow I'm not so sure

];B[hl]BL[534.936];W[il]WL[1044.666];B[ik]BL[527.774];W[di]WL[1041.942];B[ci]BL[514.912];W[ai]WL[1026.057](;B[aj]BL[497.945];W[bg]WL[1023.878];B[cq]BL[465.116];W[dq]WL[1014.057];B[cp]BL[459.801];W[bo]WL[1006.635];B[do]BL[436.749];W[cr]WL[1004.114];B[bq]BL[398.025];W[br]WL[975.348];B[bn]BL[380.247];W[aq]WL[965.072];B[ao]BL[372.743];W[bp]WL[962.493];B[jl]BL[358.056];W[im]WL[957.24];B[ll]BL[352.375];W[jm]WL[916.007];B[km]BL[345.334];W[kn]WL[914.306];B[lm]BL[329.705];W[kk]WL[900.668];B[kj]BL[305.829];W[li]WL[889.447];B[lj]BL[303.274];W[eo]WL[879.588];B[em]BL[282.201];W[fn]WL[876.793];B[cl]BL[272.229]C[Necessary? I wasn't entirely convinced, but too often I've had groups I thought were alive and kicking swept out from under my feet.];W[ni]WL[860.476];B[nj]BL[264.828];W[pi]WL[858.221];B[kr]BL[254.96];W[lr]WL[850.433];B[mr]BL[245.289];W[jr]WL[848.468];B[ls]BL[216.251];W[jp]WL[846.848];B[qr]BL[204.334];W[rr]WL[843.352]C[bleep69 [12k]: .
];B[pr]BL[108.527];W[of]WL[819.569];B[pb]BL[81.355];W[qb]WL[816.071];B[pa]BL[70.571];W[qa]WL[811.071];B[pd]BL[62.592];W[qc]WL[809.258];B[ob]BL[57.583];W[pe]WL[800.673];B[mg]BL[32.615];W[lf]WL[792.082];B[mf]BL[27.299];W[lg]WL[788.371];B[ri]BL[16.326];W[rh]WL[786.583];B[rj]BL[14.322];W[rl]WL[784.146];B[pk]BL[30]OB[5];W[hg]WL[780.479];B[mh]BL[30]OB[5];W[lh]WL[763.527];B[hb]BL[30]OB[5];W[ib]WL[760.941];B[ha]BL[30]OB[5];W[kb]WL[759.5];B[lb]BL[30]OB[5];W[ji]WL[698.053];B[ij]BL[30]OB[5];W[mj]WL[687.236];B[mk]BL[40.658];W[mi]WL[684.357];B[lk]BL[31.547];W[oj]WL[682.332];B[nk]BL[20.999];W[oh]WL[680.828];B[jb]BL[6.383];W[jc]WL[677.078];B[ka]BL[30]OB[5];W[rs]WL[663.644];B[ne]BL[47.233];W[oe]WL[660.883];B[ok]BL[40.788];W[oi]WL[655.615];B[gm]BL[37.971];W[gn]WL[653.132];B[ng]BL[30.854];W[og]WL[650.653];B[sh]BL[27.341];W[rg]WL[646.599];B[sg]BL[17.685];W[sf]WL[644.232];B[si]BL[15.375];W[ap]WL[625.228];B[an]BL[245.884];W[ql]WL[622.373];B[af]BL[233.488];W[ag]WL[619.272];B[ae]BL[226.321];W[ej]WL[581.874];B[ek]BL[221.713];W[ei]WL[579.731];B[js]BL[218.062];W[ir]WL[577.095];B[is]BL[215.173];W[hs]WL[576.074];B[ks]BL[205.159];W[hq]WL[574.867];B[sk]BL[198.185];W[sl]WL[572.823];B[rk]BL[191.972];W[rm]WL[563.771];B[qs]BL[187.406];W[sq]WL[561.891];B[en]BL[159.25];W[fp]WL[558.758];B[]BL[159.25];W[ia]WL[555.851];B[ja]BL[150.11];W[]WL[530.976];B[]BL[150.11]TW[ra][sa][rb][sb][rc][sc][id][rd][sd][ie][qe][re][se][hf][jf][kf][pf][rf][cg][ig][jg][kg][pg][qg][ah][bh][dh][kh][ph][qh][qm][sm][in][jn][rn][sn][fo][go][ho][io][jo][ko][ro][so][cp][ep][gp][hp][ip][kp][rp][sp][bq][cq][eq][gq][iq][jq][rq][ar][dr][er][fr][gr][hr][sr][as][bs][cs][ds][es][fs][gs][ss]TB[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][la][ma][na][oa][ab][bb][db][gb][kb][nb][ac][ec][fc][mc][nc][ad][bd][ed][fd][ld][md][nd][de][ee][fe][sj][ak][bk][ck][dk][kk][al][bl][dl][kl][ml][nl][am][bm][cm][dm][nm][nn][on][no][oo][nq][oq][lr][or][ms][ns][os][ps]C[mizuda [12k]: merci
bleep69 [12k]: great game, thanks!
mizuda [12k]: yes it was hard good game
bleep69 [12k]: appreciate the extra time

])(;B[bg](;W[cg];B[af];W[ei];B[aj];W[bh];B[ag];W[ej];B[ek];W[dk];B[bk];W[bl])(;W[af](;B[cg];W[ag];B[aj];W[bh])(;B[bh]C[Hmmm - I think I was wrong - I can kill the group...];W[cg];B[aj];W[ej];B[ek](;W[dk];B[bk];W[bl];B[ah];W[cl];B[ei])(;W[ei];B[dk];W[ag];B[ah])))))(;W[pr];B[or];W[oq];B[qr]))(;B[qp];W[po]))(;B[pn]TR[pr][kq]C[JB: Grab territory, connect your guys, and prepare to take one of the triangled spots.]))(;B[dg]C[JB: Take the vital point yourself.])(;B[ig]C[JB: Or you can strengthen your iffy cutting stones before attacking])(;B[ep]C[JB: Or you could tenuki and take something big elsewhere]))(;B[cn];W[dk];B[en];W[fp];B[di]C[JB: Who is attacking who here? Your attack is stronger than his. because your strong upper left stones are assiting your D11 stone.]))(;B[md])(;B[ne])(;B[mb]))

Posted: **Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:17 am**

Thanks for the analysis - lots to work with tonight when I can go over it at leisure.

:salute:

Posted: **Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:31 am**

Here is my vote for the game losing play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Capture 5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . X . O . X X O . X O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . X O . O X O O . X , O . . | $$ | . X X . . . X O X O O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X O . O . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X O . O O X X . O O . O . O O . . | $$ | X X X X . X O . . X X X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . X O O X X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X O X . X . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . O O X X X . X O . . . | $$ | . X X X . O . O . 3 O O X . . X O . . | $$ | X O O X O . . . 6 5 . O X O . X O . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . 4 1 O O X X X O . . | $$ | O . . O . O . . . b O X X O . X O . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . W X O X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 a . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

was move 158. Then Black captured one stone at "a". :b1:

was better. OC, if White protects his five stones instead of capturing one stone with :b2:

, Black will capture at "b", threatening to ruin White's territory.

Posted: **Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:34 am**

Another candidate is move 177.

Posted: **Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:14 am**

Thanks Bill - quite a "duh" moment when I saw what you pointed out at 158.

Surprised you only found 2!

Life In 19x19

Lost, but where was the losing play?

Lost, but where was the losing play?

Re: Lost, but where was the losing play?

Re: Lost, but where was the losing play?

Re: Lost, but where was the losing play?

Re: Lost, but where was the losing play?

Re: Lost, but where was the losing play?

Re: Lost, but where was the losing play?