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First Game as KGS 3k

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=2847

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First Game as KGS 3k

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:58 pm
by sholvar


All kinds of comments appreciated.

Is my analysis correct that black was actually winning until move 121 and then protected a cut that actually didn't work and thus gave the quite sure win away?

Re: First Game as KGS 3k

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:22 am
by mw42
are you sure the cut doesn't work? how does b respond if b plays tenuki at 121 and w plays n6?

Re: First Game as KGS 3k

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:39 pm
by sholvar
mw42 wrote:are you sure the cut doesn't work? how does b respond if b plays tenuki at 121 and w plays n6?


this looks like it works:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . O . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . X X . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . O . X O O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O X O . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O . . O X X X X O O X . |
$$ | . O O X X X . O . O 3 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O X X X O 1 X X 2 O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . O 5 4 b O . O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . X O O . O 7 6 X X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . O X X a . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


(at the moment it doesn't show the diagram, but I don't know why...)

Re: First Game as KGS 3k

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:47 pm
by mw42
sholvar wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . O . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . X X . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . O . X O O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O X O . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O . . O X X X X O O X . |
$$ | . O O X X X . O . O 3 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O X X X O 1 X X 2 O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . O 5 4 b O . O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . X O O . O 7 6 X X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . O X X a . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:w6: @ :b7:

Re: First Game as KGS 3k

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:34 pm
by sholvar
I don't see any difference between your code and mine. :scratch:
Anyway, this way there is no cut, right? :tmbup:

Re: First Game as KGS 3k

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:17 pm
by mw42
if white plays :w6: at :b7: then black is cut...

Re: First Game as KGS 3k

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:54 pm
by sholvar
okay, didn't see that one, :clap:
:study: then the 3 one to the right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This was what I meant, btw the marked stones are in a little trouble if they decide to cut.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . O . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . X X . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . O . X O O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O X O . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O . . O X X X X O O X . |
$$ | . O O X X X . O . O . 3 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O X X X O 1 X X 2 O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . O 5 4 9 O . O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . X O O . O 7 6 B B . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . O X X 8 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This way is no question anymore.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . O . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . X X . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . O . X O O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O X O . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O . . O X X X X O O X . |
$$ | . O O X X X . O . O . 3 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O X X X O 1 X X 2 O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O 9 O 5 4 8 O . O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . X O O . O 6 7 X X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . O X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Maybe this way is more normal.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . O . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . X X . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O O . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . O . X O O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O X O . |
$$ | . X X . . . . O . . O X X X X O O X . |
$$ | . O O X X X . O . O . 3 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O X X X O 1 X X 2 O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X O . O 5 4 b O . O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . X O O . O 7 6 X X a , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . O X X 8 0 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X . . 9 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: First Game as KGS 3k

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:28 pm
by mw42
yup, i saw that, too, but your :b1: isn't really a tenuki (as i originally assumed "if b plays tenuki") , just another (better) way of defending the cut since it puts pressure on white's group.

if your :b1: in those diagrams is not there, white can cut black so you couldn't tenuki
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