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How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:20 am
by kaimat
I recently bought a Chronos clock, and I'm all excited about playing timed go, ya know--but I was unsure of something.
If a player captures a large number of stones that will perhaps take several seconds to collect, whose time is going down while that is going on? The Chronos clocks (and probably other clocks as well) have the ability to pause both timers, so that could be an option.
Anyway, I just wanted to get the official rules about this.
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:23 am
by Li Kao
In many rule-sets the clock is stopped when more than two or three stones are captured. In some rules this only happens during byo-yomi.
But if you want official rules you need to check the rules of that specific tournament/national go association/etc . There is not one universal official ruleset.
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:58 am
by stalkor
i thought the number was way higher, something like 10 or 12 stones or more.
I think you have to pause if you need more then one grab of captured stones you may pause the clock<--personal opinion, not a rule.
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:12 am
by topazg
Embarrassingly, I can't remember the exact figure, but I _think_ it's 6 stones in BGA tournaments, where you are allowed to stop the clock to capture the stones and then restart it.
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:11 am
by xed_over
there's no official rule
most tournament organizers will set a common policy for their tournaments
I've seen the "rule" set as low as 3 or more stones, you can pause the clock.
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:16 am
by Redbeard
I agree with most that it depends on the specific tournement rules you are playing under. At the SGC tournaments, you do not stop the clock to pick-up prisoners.
It probably not really an issue. If you have captured so many stones that it takes more than 15 sec. to pick them up, is time really a factor anymore?
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:56 am
by John Fairbairn
It probably not really an issue. If you have captured so many stones that it takes more than 15 sec. to pick them up, is time really a factor anymore?
Not really applicable in internet play, but on land there are misguided people who think it is clever to win a game on time in byoyomi by creating large dead groups that have to be taken off.
The new clock owner may wish to consider also the "rules" about which side of the board the clock goes, who resets the clock in byoyomi, who starts the clock, and the many other issues people have managed to raise in order to ruin a sociable game of go.
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:32 pm
by wms
Redbeard wrote:I agree with most that it depends on the specific tournement rules you are playing under. At the SGC tournaments, you do not stop the clock to pick-up prisoners.
It probably not really an issue. If you have captured so many stones that it takes more than 15 sec. to pick them up, is time really a factor anymore?
I've known a couple go players who, because of their age or neurological issues, were very slow and clumsy at placing and removing stones. Placing is only one stone, it's just a tax of a few seconds on each move, but if it takes you 3 or 4 or more seconds to remove each stone, then killing half the board can be a guaranteed way to lose on time.
I'm guessing you were being facetious, but still, I think it is important to have a rule that largish captures are "outside" of the time controls.
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:00 pm
by EdLee
Some (many?) pros are very skillful at picking up captured stones, from years of practice. Quite beautiful to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1FvPxmmfE
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:25 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
My solution:
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:27 pm
by Dusk Eagle
I've used those things. They struggle to pick up dust. I shudder at having to use on of those.
Being a Computer Science major, I much prefer to just wipe the board clean and reassemble the position minus the captured stones.
Re How to collect stones during a timed game?-> With 2-3 Fin
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:54 am
by Tommie
xed_over wrote:there's no official rule
most tournament organizers will set a common policy for their tournaments
I've seen the "rule" set as low as 3 or more stones, you can pause the clock.
Rules for Lightning Go Tournaments5.Removal of Stones
Removal of more than two killed stones may happen in neutralized
stones must be removed in the time of the player killing them.source: http://www.britgo.org/nsw/text/lightnin.html
From: niekd@cs.kun.nl (Niek van Diepen)
These are a translation of the Dutch Go Association rules for lightning go. It is also applied to rapidgo (anything without byoyomi, but usually
up to 45 minutes).
Disclaimer: I am one of the people originally responsible for these rules, but not in my current position as Secretary of the European Go
Federation, so these are not EGF rules.
Hope it helps,
Niek van Diepen, Secretary EGF
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:32 pm
by RobertJasiek
Of course, there are official rules for quite some tournaments but not everywhere:
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/egfgtr.htmlยง5.6: "Clock neutralisation [...] 5. By a player - after having placed one's stone - to remove three or more stones without liberty while in overtime or playing under finite thinking time rules."
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:39 am
by mw42
sorry i don't have anything useful to contribute, but i've recently noticed how pros can pick up two stones in one motion and have been trying emulate it
Re: How to collect stones during a timed game?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:47 am
by EdLee
mw42 wrote:pros can pick up two stones in one motion and have been trying emulate it.
In the above youtube video, Ishida Yoshio 9p picked up 5 stones in 1+ motions (1 + 4 stones).