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BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is useful
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:23 pm
by Magicwand
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W e O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . d O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . c O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . b O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . a O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W e O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . d O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . c O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . b O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . a O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
value of a = 1 point gote = 1
value of b = 1 + 1/2 point gote = 1.5
logic: after 1 point is played they both share 1 point endgame so add 1/2
and same logic for below will yield..as below.
value of c = 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 point gote = 1.75
value of d = 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 point gote = 1.825
value of e = 2 point gote
so point e is bigger than a,b,c,d
this is my logic when i play tight endgame.
yes there are more complicated than above example..but i am teaching beginners about basic endgame.
i just came up with above lecture so i might have missed something.
let me know if my logic dont make sense.
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:43 pm
by Violence
$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . 2 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 3 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 6 5 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . 2 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 3 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 6 5 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black has 7 points.
$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 3 1 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 6 5 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 8 7 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 9 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 3 1 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 6 5 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 8 7 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 9 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black has... 7 points...
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:56 pm
by Magicwand
Violence wrote:$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . 2 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 3 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 6 5 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . 2 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 3 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 6 5 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black has 7 points.
$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 3 1 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 6 5 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 8 7 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 9 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 3 1 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 6 5 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 8 7 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 9 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black has... 7 points...
yes they both have seven points. but my point is that little fraction can addup and can be 1 point difference at the end. but if you follow the value i stated above you will never lose 1 point at the end. that is my point.
during your game you can place value of each endgame and find optimal sequence by that number.
let me know if it is helpful.
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:33 pm
by Bill Spight
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W e O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . d O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . c O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . b O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . a O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X W e O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . d O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . c O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . b O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . a O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Count:
a: 0.5
b: 1.25
c: 2.125
d: 3.0625
e: 1
Total count: 7.9375
Gain per play:
a: 0.5
b: 0.75
c: 0.875
d: 0.9375
e: 1
White to play can "round down" the count to a local score of 7. Black to play can "round up" to a local score of 8.
Orthodox play, White first.
$$Wcm1 Black +7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X O 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . 2 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 3 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 6 5 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Black +7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X O 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . 2 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 4 3 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 6 5 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The local score is 7 points for Black.
As advertised.
$$Wcm1 White error
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X O 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . 1 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 White error
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X O 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . 1 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
gains 0.9375 points, to go to a count of 7. However,
gains 1 point, for a score of 8, which White cannot round down.
$$Wcm1 White error, continued. B has 1 W prisoner.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 5 3 O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 4 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 6 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 8 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 White error, continued. B has 1 W prisoner.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 5 3 O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 4 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 6 O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 8 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The local score is 8 for Black.
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:10 pm
by Magicwand
Bill Spight wrote:The local score is 8 for Black.
thank you for your help.
but isnt it exactly same as my way of thinking if you multiply by 2?
my way is exactly how korean professionals teach.
i hope i didnt make any mistake.
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:36 pm
by Bill Spight
Magicwand wrote:but isnt it exactly same as my way of thinking if you multiply by 2?
my way is exactly how korean professionals teach.
i hope i didnt make any mistake.
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . O O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . O O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Can your way explain why White can get away with making the second largest play in this diagram?
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:48 pm
by Magicwand
Bill Spight wrote:Magicwand wrote:but isnt it exactly same as my way of thinking if you multiply by 2?
my way is exactly how korean professionals teach.
i hope i didnt make any mistake.
Can your way explain why White can get away with making the second largest play in this diagram?
yes, i see where you are going with that question.
again thank you and appreciate your wisdom.
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:04 pm
by RobertJasiek
The single most useful endgame advice for "beginners" is:
Play double sente before sente before reverse sente before gote!
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:20 pm
by Bill Spight
IMO, the most useful thing to tell beginners about yose:
Watch out for shortage of liberties!
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:29 pm
by jts
Magicwand wrote:Bill Spight wrote:Magicwand wrote:but isnt it exactly same as my way of thinking if you multiply by 2?
my way is exactly how korean professionals teach.
i hope i didnt make any mistake.
Can your way explain why White can get away with making the second largest play in this diagram?
yes, i see where you are going with that question.
again thank you and appreciate your wisdom.
Wait,
I don't understand. I thought in the second diagram Bill shows, White loses a point for playing the second-largest play.
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:37 pm
by xed_over
Bill Spight wrote:IMO, the most useful thing to tell beginners about yose:
Watch out for shortage of liberties!
That's the one that always bites me
I don't even know the difference between double, reverse, anti, whatever...
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:44 pm
by Bill Spight
jts wrote:Wait, I don't understand. I thought in the second diagram Bill shows, White loses a point for playing the second-largest play.
$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X O 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . 2 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 4 3 O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 6 5 O O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X O 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . 2 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 4 3 O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 6 5 O O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 7 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Final local score: B +8.
$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X O 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 4 1 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 6 5 3 O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 8 7 O O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 9 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O X O 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O O O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . 4 1 O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 6 5 3 O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 8 7 O O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . 9 O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Final local score: B +8.
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:47 pm
by RobertJasiek
Seems like Bill and I are speaking of beginners of different levels:)
xed_over, time is overdue then to learn what those types of endgames are!
http://senseis.xmp.net/?DoubleSentehttp://senseis.xmp.net/?Sentehttp://senseis.xmp.net/?ReverseSentehttp://senseis.xmp.net/?Gote
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:40 pm
by topazg
jts wrote:Wait, I don't understand. I thought in the second diagram Bill shows, White loses a point for playing the second-largest play.
Bill cheated and changed the diagram
. The B+8 lines are not from the same position as the B+7 lines!
Re: BASIC endgame theory for beginner that actually is usefu
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:50 pm
by Numsgil
MW, I don't actually find this useful, just FYI. I know where the numbers come from from my own understanding of the endgame, but that's based on computer science ideas like decision tree and recursive summing from the leaves to the root. I'd be surprised if that's how you think, though.
So I'm challenging you to take your example and try again, but this time be really really aggressive about saying where the numbers are coming from.
For instance, you say 'a' has a value of 1. Where does that number come from? (I think of it as forming a branch in the decision tree, having W or B occupying 'a' as the decision, determining that it's gote for both sides, then averaging the branches of the tree together, calculating values from the leaves to the root. But maybe you know a simpler way to explain it or calculate it?)
Next you say 'b' is worth 1 + 1/2. Where does 1/2 come from? Especially to beginners, half points (and wilder binary fractions) don't make any sense, since at the end of the game the score (not counting komi) has to be an integer.
As it is, it's like you wrote "x^2 - 8x + 15" on the board, wrote below it "x = 3 or 5", and said "great, everyone knows how to factor now, right?" Rmmm, no, you need to explain a bit more.