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Quick review (2k game)?

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3270

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Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:58 am
by mw42
I wonder if anyone would be so kind as to look at this game. I added a few comments about obvious mistakes, but I'd like some outside feedback. I lost by 9 points.

If anyone bites, this will actually be the first game I ever got reviewed. ><

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:20 pm
by Shaddy


Biggest problem: Don't attach to weak stones.

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:02 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
25: Crosscut at F4

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:45 pm
by judicata
Joaz Banbeck wrote:25: Crosscut at F4


Does that work? What did I miss?

EDIT: Apparently, I can't find "F4" on a grid.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X 2 O . . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. . 4 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ -------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:03 pm
by Magicwand
shaddy gave you many good advices that is really helpful.

my 2 cent not on specific moves...but overall feeling i got:
i felt that you didnt count during the game. correct me if i am wrong.
if it was fast game then i would understand that you dont have time to count but..
you were clueless if you were ahead or not.

if you know the situation(count) then it is easier to find the move you can make.

do not play the optimal move..but play the move that will help you win. many times it is not the optimal move.

edit: if all professionals play only optimal moves then every game will be won by less than few points.
but they play to win. that is why they lose big group many times.

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:18 pm
by gaius
Joaz, I don't agree with your idea of crosscutting. Presumably you aim at this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X 3 O 1 . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. . . 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ -------------------------------------+[/go]

... but then I am not at all convinced that this is better for black than the game:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X O 4 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X X O X . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. . . O X O 6 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ -------------------------------------+[/go]

Maybe you can prove me wrong?

Besides, if you are only giving one comment on a game, I really don't see the sense in suggesting such a dubious local tesuji. There are more urgent learning points in this game. For example: move 29... I know Shaddy pointed it out already, but peeping on a cut as you do here is a very bad habit. I thought I'd stress it ;)

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:42 am
by mw42
Thanks for the comments Shaddy and everyone! You are right, Magicwand, I didn't count during the game, and I usually don't. I am trying to fix that, but I often forget.

Shaddy, just a quick comment on your review. I had a plan after the attach, I wanted to chase him into the center, but I got greedy and confused and followed through very poorly.

Joaz, I read the cut during the game and didn't like what I saw so I avoided it.

Gaius, yeah, I have no idea why I played that move. Many times I play with no thought then as soon as I place the stone I wish I could take the move back and think. ><

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:25 pm
by oso
Some simple comments. Take with grain of salt, please:

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:58 am
by Magicwand
oso wrote:Some simple comments. Take with grain of salt, please:

FYI, i think the two players are much stronger than you and your advices were wrong.

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:47 am
by Shaddy
I agree, and I'll go into more detail:

@Move9: W will not play F17, he will play E17, and that is much more painful for the corner. Also J18 is a waste of a move- second line moves in fuseki are rarely good.

@Move12: B E6 is an insane move, White will just take the corner with C3. There's no pressure on white, and in fact it's black who will be out a base. C8 is not slow, it looks at stealing the base of the white group on the side and White's approach move still isn't settled yet.

@Move14: B10 is also insane, letting white cut the black group in that situation is like having a needle shoved in your eye. B13 as a followup is pretty useless, and after the sequence shown it's guaranteed that either black's corner or his side will die.

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:04 am
by Aphelion
oso wrote:Some simple comments. Take with grain of salt, please:

You are joking right?

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:10 am
by oso
Hey, no worries! I'm my strength for a reason, so I don't mind being corrected. But I wanted to comment anyway. I hope that's not frowned upon?

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:16 am
by amnal
oso wrote:Hey, no worries! I'm my strength for a reason, so I don't mind being corrected. But I wanted to comment anyway. I hope that's not frowned upon?


It is not frowned upon, in principle, but I think people take issue with how your comments are all easy to prove extremely flawed. If you are not sure you are correct, consider being more questioning rather than confident that you are correct (because this looks bad if you are wrong, and people don't like it). If you are sure you are correct, be questioning anyway ;)

Re: Quick review (2k game)?

Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:48 am
by oso
Sure. I'll do that! Thanks!
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