$$Wc White to play and kill something $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc White to play and kill something $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Saw this in a friend's game. The game ended here, but there is one tesuji for white.
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:21 am
by Harleqin
White can capture two stones.
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:23 am
by mw42
$$W White to play and kill something $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . b X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X Q X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X a X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W White to play and kill something $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . b X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X Q X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X a X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Not sure I'd call a tesuji, but if black responds at (a) then W(b).
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:28 am
by Chew Terr
Harleqin and mw: Yep, that's the one I was talking about. I thought it looked cool enough to show, not to mention that something similar could give the points I need to win, someday.
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:32 am
by judicata
I just read the subject and shuddered with fear.
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:40 am
by judicata
After actually looking at the problem, I realized worst fears are not manifest--i.e., it is not a tesuji problem that actually involves the whole board.
$$W White to play and kill something $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 3 X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 5 4 | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 7 6 | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 9 8 | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 1 X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 2 X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W White to play and kill something $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 3 X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 5 4 | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 7 6 | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 9 8 | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 1 X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 2 X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Of course, black just should give up the two stones, and play another move at 9 (so white can finish in sente). Then again, I didn't count, so it may be lost either way.
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:45 pm
by dedroid
thanks, that was an interesting problem. I found it really enjoyable.
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:37 pm
by Bill Spight
$$W White to play and kill something $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 2 . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 1 X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 3 X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W White to play and kill something $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 2 . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 1 X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 3 X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
¡Cuidado!
$$W Oops! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 1 X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 3 2 | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 5 4 | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X X . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O . O X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O . O X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W Oops! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 1 X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 3 2 | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 5 4 | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X X . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O . O X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O . O X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
$$W Correct defense $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 2 . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 1 X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 3 X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W Correct defense $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 2 . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 1 X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 3 X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
$$W Safe! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 3 X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 5 4 | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X X 6 | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 2 1 | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O . O X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O . O X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W Safe! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 3 X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 5 4 | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X X 6 | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 2 1 | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O . O X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O . O X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
$$W Correct play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 1 X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X 8 3 2 | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 5 4 | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 0 6 | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 7 X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 9 X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W Correct play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 1 X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X 8 3 2 | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 5 4 | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 0 6 | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 7 X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 9 X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Edit:
Oops! I goofed.
$$W Correct play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X a 1 X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 2 3 | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . 4 | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X b X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W Correct play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X a 1 X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 2 3 | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . 4 | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X b X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
is the right way to start. Then is correct defense, leading to the ko.
It is after midnight. Maybe White can play at "a" and fight the ko. In fact, I am pretty sure of it. But I am going to bed, now.
If is at "b", Black can capture the stone, and White has lost a ko threat.
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:46 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Chew Terr wrote:White to play and kill something
My solution:
$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O W O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O W O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:53 am
by topazg
Thank you all for showing me I should have spotted it
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:18 am
by entropi
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Chew Terr wrote:White to play and kill something
My solution:
$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O W O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O W O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
My solution:
$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X W | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . | $$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O | $$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O | $$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O | $$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X | $$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . | $$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . | $$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . | $$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X | $$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O | $$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O | $$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O | $$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . | $$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O | $$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X W | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:28 am
by robinz
Well, if we're into suicidal moves now, surely S17 is the biggest one? (Assuming black takes advantage by playing T19, and we don't get into playing "losing go"...)
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:39 am
by entropi
robinz wrote:Well, if we're into suicidal moves now, surely S17 is the biggest one? (Assuming black takes advantage by playing T19, and we don't get into playing "losing go"...)
I don't think s17 is bigger. t1 brings the black group back to life. Ok, the problem was killing something but t1 kills the game
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:55 am
by robinz
Good point - I'd somehow missed that
Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:16 am
by Bill Spight
An SGF file with variations.
(;CA[ISO8859-1]FF[4]SZ[19]AP[GOWrite:2.2.21]ST[2]GM[1]PL[W]PM[0]AB[mi][ii][li][ja][ka][rq][qi][oa][gl][hl][cl][dl][fi][ai][ci][di][lf][mf][of][jf][rl][kf][hd][ql][pf][ll][ml][qd][sf][kl][nq][pq][gq][fg][cg][dg][gg][mg][pk][rk][pg][qs][rs][kb][rn][in][jn][pb][ln][nb][nn][dn][en][ge][jm][he][im][lm][km][fm][ie][je][gm][ce][de][ae][rj][sj][or][pj][qr][nj][pr][lj][rp][jj][kj][hj][np][fj][pp][bj][aj][cp][ne][bp][me][ep][re][qe][mo][no][hk][ik][lk][nk][dk][oc][pc][fo][eo][do][co][ho][ic][go][jc][gh][fh][ef][ih][hh][af][bf][lh][cf][bh][eh][qh][cm][dm]DT[2011-04-07]C[Diagram from http\://lifein19x19.com/
]AW[ni][pi][oi][ki][ia][qq][pa][qa][fl][bl][el][ei][gi][cd][bd][nf][dd][hf][gd][if][fd][sl][pl][nl][lq][bq][dq][cq][fq][eq][ad][ig][jg][hg][ok][ng][kg][lg][sk][og][os][rd][sd][jb][qn][hb][ib][rb][qb][kn][mn][on][an][bn][ee][fe][em][rm][qm][sm][nm][mm][be][om][mr][jp][kp][nr][mp][fp][oj][gp][sr][hp][rr][sp][gj][dj][qp][ej][cj][dp][ap][se][gk][cc][ko][lo][qo][ro][bc][po][ak][bk][ck][ek][fk][sc][bo][qc][gc][jo][hc][io][ff][gf][jh][mh][nh][ph][bm]GN[ ]PW[ ]PC[http\://lifein19x19.com/]PB[ ]FG[259:] ( ;W[rf] ( ;B[rg] ;W[sg] ;B[sh] ( ;W[qf]C[*** White fights the ko.] ;B[sf] ;W[kc] ;C[*** There is more than one way to reply.]B[lc] ;W[sg] ;C[*** Black has three big ko threats. Starting with this one lets Black use the other two for this ko if White does not reply.]B[pm] ;W[ol] ;B[sf] ;W[lb]C[*** There is more than one way to play two more threats here.] ;B[kd] ;W[sg] ;B[aq] ;W[ar] ;B[sf] ;W[la] ;B[kc] ;W[sg] ;B[ss] ;W[sq] ;B[sf] ;W[ah] ;B[ag] ;W[sg] ;C[*** A non-threat.]B[ji] ;W[sf]C[*** Sente.] ( ;B[qg] ;W[kh]C[*** Black gets 4 points on the right side, 5 points of territory minus 1 point for the captured stone.] ) ( ;B[kh] ;W[qg] ;B[rh] ;W[pe]C[*** Bingo!] )
) ( ;W[sf] ;C[*** Black gets 5 points on the right side, 6 points of territory minus 1 point for the captured stone.]B[qf] )
) ( ;C[*** A mistake.]B[sg] ;W[rg] ;B[sh] ;W[rh] ;B[si] ;W[qj] ;B[qg] ;W[qk] ;C[*** Black gets a net score of 3 points on the right side, 7 points of territory plus dead stones minus 2 points of White territory and 2 captured stones.]B[ri] )
) ( ;W[qj]C[*** An inaccuracy. This loses a ko threat.] ( ;B[qk] ;W[rf]C[*** Reverts to the main line, except that White has lost a ko threat.] ;B[rg] ;W[sg] ;B[sh] ) ( ;C[*** An inaccuracy. Better technique to make White fight the ko.]B[rh] ;W[qk]C[*** Black gets a net score of 4 points on the right side, 8 points of territory minus 2 points of White territory and 2 points for captured stones. See continuation after a pass to see that Black does not have to protect.] ;B[tt] ;W[si] ;B[ri] ;W[rf] ;B[sg] ;W[rg] ;B[sh] )
a tesuji, but if black responds at (a) then W(b).
is the right way to start. Then 
is correct defense, leading to the ko. 
