IGS 2k vs 2k - Arrgggg!! Tripped right before the touchdown.
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:19 pm
by red_z06
Re: IGS 2k vs 2k - Arrgggg!! Tripped right before the touchd
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:45 am
by blade90
Since I am nowhere near your level I will not comment on the beginning of the game, however at the you made some mistakes.
What struck me was move 160 by white, why trying to save 1 stone and risking a big group? Of course it doesn't look like the group is in trouble but saving 1 stone is totally unnecessary in a fight about life & death, it is so small that you would like to save this move for the endgame of endgame .
I hope this doesn't sound too harsh but it was a total useless move. Anyways I must tell you: great game! You played a lot better then me and you made a mostly alive group in black's territory.
You should have known that black's only chance to win would be to kill the group, otherwise you will win and this knowlede should tell you defend and make it 100% alive
Here is what I would have played instead of 160:
$$W What can Black do to kill White now?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . X O . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O O O O X X . . X O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X . O X O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O . X O O X . X X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . O . O X X . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . X X X X . 1 . . , X . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . X . . X . O O X X O . . . X . O X X |
$$ | . O X X O O . . O O X X X X . . O X . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , O X . X . X O O O |
$$ | . O O O O . . O . . O O X . X . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . O |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W What can Black do to kill White now?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . X O . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O O O O X X . . X O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X . O X O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O . X O O X . X X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . O . O X X . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . X X X X . 1 . . , X . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . X . . X . O O X X O . . . X . O X X |
$$ | . O X X O O . . O O X X X X . . O X . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , O X . X . X O O O |
$$ | . O O O O . . O . . O O X . X . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . O |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
$$W After 5 Black is caught in a snapback (other variations lead to 1 capture = 2 eyes)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . X O . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O O O O X X . . X O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X . O X O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O . X O O X . X X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O 2 3 O X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O O O . 4 O . O X X . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . X X X X 5 1 . . , X . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . X . . X . O O X X O . . . X . O X X |
$$ | . O X X O O . . O O X X X X . . O X . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , O X . X . X O O O |
$$ | . O O O O . . O . . O O X . X . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . O |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W After 5 Black is caught in a snapback (other variations lead to 1 capture = 2 eyes)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . X O . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O O O O X X . . X O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X . O X O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O . X O O X . X X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O 2 3 O X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O O O . 4 O . O X X . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . X X X X 5 1 . . , X . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . X . . X . O O X X O . . . X . O X X |
$$ | . O X X O O . . O O X X X X . . O X . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , O X . X . X O O O |
$$ | . O O O O . . O . . O O X . X . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . O |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
$$W White has 2 eyes and threatens tp play "a"
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . X O . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O O O O X X . . X O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X . O X O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O . X O O X . X X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O 3 . O X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O O O . 2 O . O X X . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . X X X X a 1 . . , X . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . X . . X . O O X X O . . . X . O X X |
$$ | . O X X O O . . O O X X X X . . O X . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , O X . X . X O O O |
$$ | . O O O O . . O . . O O X . X . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . O |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W White has 2 eyes and threatens tp play "a"
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . X O . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O O O O X X . . X O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X . O X O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O . X O O X . X X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O 3 . O X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O O O . 2 O . O X X . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . X X X X a 1 . . , X . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . X . . X . O O X X O . . . X . O X X |
$$ | . O X X O O . . O O X X X X . . O X . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , O X . X . X O O O |
$$ | . O O O O . . O . . O O X . X . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . O |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It is easy to make a small mistake that turns in a big loss, especially in capturing races or Life & Death situations.
It is always important to keep calm and not answer every move your opponent makes.
I hope that helps a bit^^
If anyone thinks my move is bad fell free to tell me why, I need to improve after all
Re: IGS 2k vs 2k - Arrgggg!! Tripped right before the touchd
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:09 am
by jts
$$W White has 2 eyes and threatens tp play "a"
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . X O . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O O O O X X . . X O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X . O X O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O . X O O X . X X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O 3 . O X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O O O . 2 O . O X X . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . X X X X 4 1 . . , X . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . X . . X . O O X X O . . . X . O X X |
$$ | . O X X O O . . O O X X X X . . O X . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , O X . X . X O O O |
$$ | . O O O O . . O . . O O X . X . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . O |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W White has 2 eyes and threatens tp play "a"
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . X O . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O O O O X X . . X O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X . O X O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O . X O O X . X X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O 3 . O X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O O O . 2 O . O X X . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . X X X X 4 1 . . , X . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . X . . X . O O X X O . . . X . O X X |
$$ | . O X X O O . . O O X X X X . . O X . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , O X . X . X O O O |
$$ | . O O O O . . O . . O O X . X . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . O |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Where do you see two eyes?
Re: IGS 2k vs 2k - Arrgggg!! Tripped right before the touchd
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:36 am
by blade90
$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . X O . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O O O O X X . . X O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X . O X O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O . X O O X . X X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O 3 a O X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O O O . 2 O b O X X . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . X X X X 4 1 . . , X . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . X . . X . O O X X O . . . X . O X X |
$$ | . O X X O O . . O O X X X X . . O X . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , O X . X . X O O O |
$$ | . O O O O . . O . . O O X . X . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . O |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . X O . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O O O O X X . . X O X . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X . O X O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X O . X O O X . X X . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . O O 3 a O X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O O O . 2 O b O X X . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . X X X X 4 1 . . , X . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . X . . X . O O X X O . . . X . O X X |
$$ | . O X X O O . . O O X X X X . . O X . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , O X . X . X O O O |
$$ | . O O O O . . O . . O O X . X . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . O |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"a" and "b" are two eyes, none is a false eye.
Edit: Ups! "a" is a false eye! Sorry you are right, my mistake
Edit 2: I was sure that the first move I mentioned is a great defensive move that saves the group.
I went through some variations for both players to prove it to myself. I always save these things, maybe someone is interested in the sgf file, I only added few comments.
If someone finds errors or better moves, let me know^^
The variations start at move 160 and 3 in the diagram is played at 4.