[go]$$ Black to play $$ ----------- $$ | X . . . . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . . O . | $$ -----------[/go]
Easy, but, I think, instructive.
Edit:
Capture go.
Passing is not allowed. The first player to capture a stone wins.
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:56 am
by Kirby
Pass? I don't really get it...
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:02 am
by Li Kao
@Kirby I think you can't pass in capture go. So the point of this problem is to force your opponent to fill his eyes first. But I can't find a good ruleset for capture go atm.
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:04 am
by daniel_the_smith
$$B Black to play $$ ----------- $$ | X . 1 3 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . 2 O . | $$ -----------
[go]$$B Black to play $$ ----------- $$ | X . 1 3 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . 2 O . | $$ -----------[/go]
...and white is forced to play self atari?
Maybe Bill is trying to demonstrate how capture go could evolve into regular go?
Or maybe I'm missing the point completely...
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:06 am
by Koroviev
Could you explain rules, Bill? I find various different ones online.
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:06 am
by Kirby
Li Kao wrote:@Kirby I think you can't pass in capture go. So the point of this problem is to force your opponent to fill his eyes first. But I can't find a good ruleset for capture go atm.
Ah, thanks, Li Kao. I wasn't thinking of "capture go", the game. For some reason, I was assuming that this was "regular go".
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:02 am
by Bill Spight
daniel_the_smith wrote:
$$B Black to play $$ ----------- $$ | X . 1 3 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . 2 O . | $$ -----------
[go]$$ The three moves $$ ----------- $$ | X b c c b | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O a a O . | $$ -----------[/go]
a) is selfatari b) leads to a 3 point eye which once white jumps into its middle forces a self atari
$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari $$ ----------- $$ | X 1 . 2 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . . O . | $$ -----------
[go]$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari $$ ----------- $$ | X 1 . 2 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . . O . | $$ -----------[/go]
c) daniel's sequence which works. White can't deviate at move 2 since all other moves are self atari.
I really don't see your point.
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:29 am
by Bill Spight
Li Kao wrote:
If you just need to capture a single stone the problem looks pretty pointless. There are three first moves.
$$ The three moves $$ ----------- $$ | X b c c b | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O a a O . | $$ -----------
[go]$$ The three moves $$ ----------- $$ | X b c c b | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O a a O . | $$ -----------[/go]
a) is selfatari b) leads to a 3 point eye which once white jumps into its middle forces a self atari
$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari $$ ----------- $$ | X 1 . 2 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . . O . | $$ -----------
[go]$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari $$ ----------- $$ | X 1 . 2 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . . O . | $$ -----------[/go]
c) daniel's sequence which works. White can't deviate at move 2 since all other moves are self atari.
I really don't see your point.
The point is the seki in variation b). Even though you don't need two eyes to live in capture go, you may need two eyes to avoid seki.
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:27 pm
by Li Kao
Bill Spight wrote:
Li Kao wrote:b) leads to a 3 point eye which once white jumps into its middle forces a self atari
$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari $$ ----------- $$ | X 1 . 2 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . . O . | $$ -----------
[go]$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari $$ ----------- $$ | X 1 . 2 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . . O . | $$ -----------[/go]
The point is the seki in variation b). Even though you don't need two eyes to live in capture go, you may need two eyes to avoid seki.
How is that a seki? It's black to move. He may not pass. So he will need to play a self-atari and lose one white's next turn.
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:27 pm
by palapiku
The term "seki" only makes sense when passing is allowed. So does the word "alive", for that matter.
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:00 pm
by Shaddy
I think seki makes sense without passes. It means that the first player to play locally gets a poor result, somehow. In this case there's nowhere else to play, so black just loses.
Re: Capture go problem
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:08 pm
by Bill Spight
Li Kao wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
Li Kao wrote:b) leads to a 3 point eye which once white jumps into its middle forces a self atari
$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari $$ ----------- $$ | X 1 . 2 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . . O . | $$ -----------
[go]$$ Fail - now all allowed moves are self atari $$ ----------- $$ | X 1 . 2 . | $$ | X X X X X | $$ | X O X O X | $$ | O O O O O | $$ | O . . O . | $$ -----------[/go]
The point is the seki in variation b). Even though you don't need two eyes to live in capture go, you may need two eyes to avoid seki.
How is that a seki? It's black to move. He may not pass. So he will need to play a self-atari and lose one white's next turn.
The top region is seki. Neither side may approach the other.
