In a recent thread Robert Jasiek linked to his capsule book reviews, which I found fascinating mainly because of his convention that the highest ranked books (++) will cause any kyu player who reads them to gain "considerably more than one rank".
Now, we've done a version of "best go books" again and again, but I would like people to nominate books for the (++) category - or alternatively, attack other people's nominations.
For reference, Robert's list is:
Joseki vol. 1: Fundamentals Joseki vol. 2: Strategy Tesuji (Davies) Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go Stategic Concepts of Go Attack and Defense
HIs slightly less prestigious (+) category comprises:
Fuseki Dictionary (Takagawa Kaku) Fuseki Dictionary (Rin Kaiho) Modern Opening (Kweon Kyeong-un) Tesuji Encyclopedia (Nihon Kiin) Kansufu Gengen Gokyo Hatsuyoron All About Life and Death Counting Liberties and Winning Capturing Races Master of Haengma Haengma Dictionary
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:59 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Best books: Kageyama's "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go" ( #1 go book in English, IMHO ) Kajiwara's "Direction of Play"
Second tier: Kato's "Attack and Kill" Shuko's 4-vol tesuji dictionary Ishida's 3-vol joseki dictionary Yang's Fundamentals
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:24 pm
by dangomango
Imho the best ones are the ones that get you started. The ones that help you get started become the building blocks of your foundation of knowledge. There's a Chinese saying: Even the tallest buildings all start from the ground (萬丈高樓從地起) In another word, even buildings as tall as the twin towers will collapse if it's not built without the proper groundwork.
Learn to Play Go vol 1-5 by Janice Kim and Graded go problems vol 2-4
They help me understood not only basic concepts of go but laid the fundamental groundwork of my go as well. They are easy to understand and very detailed with lots of pictures and examples.
I am probably biased because I've read them and I jumped from beginner to sdk within a month or two just from these series.
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:52 pm
by Bantari
I seriously think that which particular books are best for a given player depends on many things, the level of the player among others. But also the temperament, what you actually need at the moment, and so on. To say that any specific book will get any given kyu player to gain a few ranks is, imho, rather foolish and shows some basic lack of understanding not only of Go but also of human nature.
Having said the above, here are my favorite books, ones that helped me the most:
Throughout: - Lessons in the Fundamentals, by Kageyama (my very first Go book, read it many times) - Invincible (although I did not have this book until high SKD level)
At DDK levels and some on SDK: - The Elementary Go Series (most of the volumes... I never fully got through the Endgame and the Attack and Defense was slightly above me at that time.) - Opening Theory Made Easy by Otake
At SDK levels: - Attack and Defense from EGS - Strategic Concepts of Go, bu Nagahara? - Ishida's Joseki Dictionary
I am not sure if any of them really can take credit for getting me up in rank by themselves. Reading 'Life and Death' and 'Tesuji' from the EGS sure got me up a few ranks at the time, but it is possible that any other books of the same subject would have done the same. Or maybe not...
Anyhow... I have read and studied pretty much all of the english-language Go books published up until a few years back, and many of the non-english ones, but the above books are the titles I am most thankful for. But that's just me...
I cannot really comment on beginner books (i.e. ones teaching you the actual rules, like the Janics Kim books) since I learned the game long before any such book found its way to my library.
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:42 pm
by Hushfield
These ones already mentioned that I absolutely agree with for [++] rating - Davies, James - Tesuji: Every time you study this book, it will make you stronger. You can sudy this from DDK level right up to dan level. - Kageyama, Toshiro - Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go: It's the single best book written on go ever. If there is one book to rule them all, this would be it. - Ishida, Akira and Davies, James: Attack and Defense: great explanation of leaning and splitting attacks.
Other books that have all made me gain more than two stones, and I consider to be [++] - Kano Yoshinori - Graded Go Problems for Beginners: Though every volume has the potential to make you two stones stronger if you study it at the right time in your development, I especially remember volume 2 for singlehandedly making me gain 3 stones in a few weeks' time. - Bozulich, Richard - The Second Book of Go: After you've learned the rules and gained some basic reading strength (through games and go problems), this is the one book that everybody will recommend you take up. Studying this book will lay a solid foundation in every part of your game, including the opening, good shape, tesuji, endgame, etc.
Bantari wrote:- Invincible (although I did not have this book until high SKD level)
Although an awesome book, I can't see it providing such a jump in skill, unless you are already a strong dan-level player.
Bantari wrote:- The Elementary Go Series (most of the volumes... I never fully got through the Endgame and the Attack and Defense was slightly above me at that time.)
Without that atrocious volume 2, called '38 Basic Joseki', no doubt. That one is just aweful. The other five are quite good, particularly volumes 3-5.
dangomango wrote:Learn to Play Go vol 1-5 by Janice Kim
I just can't get myself to like these books. That's just as much a result of the actual feel of the books, with their large format, as well as the drawings inside. The people that learn go with them seem to swear by these books, though.
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:51 pm
by RobertJasiek
Hushfield wrote:- Kageyama, Toshiro - Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go: It's the single best book written on go ever.
In the category "motivation of what to study next or later", it is a good candidate for the single best book. In the category "amount of knowledge needed for study", it is rather weak though. In the category entertainment, it belongs to the top books but is not the single best book (Treasure Chest Engima is an equal candidate there).
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:43 pm
by SoDesuNe
In my opinion the best books are (beginner/intermediate because that's where I stand ^^):
Tesuji (++) Get Strong at Tesuji (++) Opening Theory Made Easy (++) Graded Go Problems For Beginner series (++)
Attack and Defense (+) Making Good Shape (+) Rescue and Capture (+) Maeda's Intermediate Level Problems (+)
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:08 am
by gaius
Lee Changho Tsumego Series ++ Lee Changho Tesuji Series +/++ (though volume 2 seemed oddly too easy and dull, compared to volume 1)
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:14 pm
by Hazushi
++ First Attack and Defense Toshiro Kageyama - Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go The Analyzed Games of Go Seigen Sakata Eio - The Middle Game Of Go Vol. 1 ( First book, Some one was throwing it away and was about to burn it So I grabbed it )
+ Second Gengen Gokyo Hatsuyoron
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:14 pm
by snorri
I don't think reading any book has improved my rank the 1st time through. Maybe for some problem books the 10th time through...
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:06 pm
by Bantari
Hushfield wrote:
Bantari wrote:- The Elementary Go Series (most of the volumes... I never fully got through the Endgame and the Attack and Defense was slightly above me at that time.)
Without that atrocious volume 2, called '38 Basic Joseki', no doubt. That one is just aweful.
Yeah, I sort-of forgot about this one.
Although, to tell you the truth, I did not find it that bad. At the level I have read it it seemed to me more useful than Ishida - the only alternative I had. It did not loose me in a jungle of complicated variations and provided simple and easy to understand sequences for many of the common josekis. Of course, my games seldom followed those selected patterns, but the book still game the the general feeling for the direction of play and development from the josekis I played. So I would not knock it off, personally.
Still, I agree that it is the weakest of the series.
The other volume of the ES I usually 'forget' is the 7th volume - Handicap Go. Don't think I every actually read this from cover to cover as I did the other ones.
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:43 pm
by jts
So the cumulative, unscientific list of ++'s is:
Attack and Defense [RJ, Bantari, Hushfield, Hazushi] Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go [RJ,Joaz, Hushfield, Hazushi] Tesuji (Davies) [RJ, Hushfield, SDN] GGP [Dango, Hushfield, SDN] Stategic Concepts of Go [RJ, Bantari] Joseki vol. 1: Fundamentals [RJ] Joseki vol. 2: Strategy [RJ] Direction of Play [Joaz] Learn to Play Go [Dango] Ishida Joseki [Bantari] Second Book of Go [Hushfield] Opening TME [SDN] Lee Changho Tsumego [Gaius] Lee Changho Tesuji [Gaius] Go Seigen Games [Hazushi] The Middle Game (Sakata) [Hazushi]
Thanks to everyone who has participated so far! I'm actually somewhat surprised that there's so little skepticism that (++) books exist.
My own (++) list: Cho Chikun Elementary Problems Tesuji (Davies)
That's based on personal experience... but I can't say for sure that they would help someone who had already done different tsumego or different tesuji books. I would like to say that "Attack and Defense" is (++), but while I enjoy Go much more, I actually haven't improved that much since I read it.
Some questions: 1. For people who recommended series - is the series as a whole (++), or each individual book in the series? 2. Was your estimate that a book is (++) premised on the reader giving the book one thorough reading, or on fully understanding the material in it? 3. I'm assuming that most of the (++) are only valid if it's your first time... clearly there are diminishing returns to, say, knowing more tesuji. If you think the book you're recommending is (++) even if you've already studied the topic a little, I'd be curious to know that.
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:02 am
by SoDesuNe
jts wrote:Some questions: 1. For people who recommended series - is the series as a whole (++), or each individual book in the series? 2. Was your estimate that a book is (++) premised on the reader giving the book one thorough reading, or on fully understanding the material in it? 3. I'm assuming that most of the (++) are only valid if it's your first time... clearly there are diminishing returns to, say, knowing more tesuji. If you think the book you're recommending is (++) even if you've already studied the topic a little, I'd be curious to know that.
1. In the Graded Go Problems For Beginner series every book itself is in my opinion (++). I can't say this about any other series I know (I guess Yi Chang'ho Life-and-Death and Tesuji will be very good as well but I didn't solve them yet). 2. For me a book needs to be a good read in the first place. Then it should teach something and it should have a good presentation (e.g. structure, diagrammes, text format). Lastly it should offer enough so I can go through it several time. If you don't enjoy a book while you read it the first time it becomes work and less fun. So I guess, my (++) books are (++) because you can get a lot out of them by your first reading and still when you read it again. 3. See above. My books are (++) because you can still enjoy the read and learn from them in the second, third or fourth reading.
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:05 am
by Hushfield
jts wrote:Some questions: 1. For people who recommended series - is the series as a whole (++), or each individual book in the series? 2. Was your estimate that a book is (++) premised on the reader giving the book one thorough reading, or on fully understanding the material in it? 3. I'm assuming that most of the (++) are only valid if it's your first time... clearly there are diminishing returns to, say, knowing more tesuji. If you think the book you're recommending is (++) even if you've already studied the topic a little, I'd be curious to know that.
1. The elementary go series is a good series as a whole (haven't found the 7th volume on handicap go yet), but it's the individual volumes that make the series as a whole good. I've always seen them more as stand-alone books than volumes in one coherent series. Volumes 3, 4 and 5 stand out. 2. Reading the material immediately had an impact, but it's only way down the line, when you feel you finally understand the concepts presented in the book, that you notice just how much of an impact the book really had. 3. Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go becoms even better the more you read it. As you progress further you start looking for complicated tesuji, brilliant moves, while all you need is right here. "It's the best go players that can keep on making simple moves." Kageyama's masterpiece stays ++. Ishida's 'Attack and Defense' falls in the diminishing returns area for me. I rate it ++ on the first time through, but once you've learned about splitting attacks and started applying that in your own games it becomes more of a + category book. Tesuji is a borderline case. I guess there will come a time when it falls down to the + category, but at my current level that time hasn't come. I still smile at the awesomeness of the keima tesuji in capturing the cutting stones, but I'm no longer as in awe as I was the first time around. Same for Graded Go Problems for Beginners. Their ++ status has an expiration date, namely the day you wake up and find yourself to be a solid dan-level player. I've heard they do stay + class then as a source of easy to solve warm-up problems. 'The second book of go' has already reached its expiration date for me, and I think that for many players it's only ++ on their first time through. If you take your time to study every chapter patiently and apply the concepts in your own game, that is. But it certainly doesn't stay ++ for the rest of your go career.
Re: The bestest of books
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:22 pm
by NoSkill
Lessons in the fundamentals of Go On Your Side 36 stratagems applied to go Sabaki- Yilun Yang article