Life In 19x19

Are strong Go players detail oriented in other areas of their life?

from: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_m ... riented%27

To be detail-oriented means that you pay attention to every little thing. For example, if a 10-page document was missing one comma, you would notice it. No matter how minuscule something is, it doesn't slip by you. You pay VERY close attention and make sure that things are perfect.

This definition tends to describe me to some degree, yet I'm no good at Go -- which seems to me to be a very detail oriented game. And I work with someone who is a very strong Go player, yet they tend to be oblivious to various details around them at work.

It feels like there should be a relation, but maybe there's not?

No. It entirely depends on the individual.

Cliches/caricatures: Columbo (RIP Peter Falk); the "mad" scientist (Doc from Back the the Future, Christopher Lloyd).

I'm detail-oriented, but I think it makes me a bad go player. The essential vice of the detail-oriented personality is to squander resources on trivial things (details!) with the inevitable result that there are no resources left to take care of important things. Tenuki and taking sente, in life and in go, are foreign to the detail-oriented style.

(This is one reason I like go! It makes me a better person.)

I'm an "above average" Go player ([sl=KGSRankHistogram]on KGS anyway[/sl]), so no clue whether that's supposed to be "good" or not. In general, I'm very much not detail-oriented, but I can detect misspelled words and poor punctuation pretty well. I'd personally be surprised if there was much of a link, as I don't really see the connection between the two. I think pattern recognition is much more vital to skill in Go than detail-orientedness, and I definitely don't think you can improve your attention to details in life by playing Go or vice versa.

"Good" go players tend to notice the large scale tactics at work and have the capacity to become detail-oriented when it matters.

Amazing go players (from what I can tell) are extremely detail oriented, but this detail takes the form of "timing", not only seeing the right sequence but seeing where it fits in the game.

I'm neither good at go nor detail oriented, so I guess there's not much I can contribute to this thread.

I'm planning on being a mathematician, so I'm detail oriented in some ways. Really only the ways that have to do with math.

shapenaji wrote:Amazing go players (from what I can tell) are extremely detail oriented,

that's kinda what I thought, but...

shapenaji wrote:but this detail takes the form of "timing", not only seeing the right sequence but seeing where it fits in the game.

this seems to fit with what jts was saying (and makes some sense to me)

jts wrote:The essential vice of the detail-oriented personality is to squander resources on trivial things (details!) with the inevitable result that there are no resources left to take care of important things. Tenuki and taking sente, in life and in go, are foreign to the detail-oriented style.

I think you can be detail orientated without losing track of the big picture too.

Helel wrote:Am I correct in assuming that "detail oriented" in this context is meant as an euphemism for "anal perfectionists"?

That's exactly how I meant it ...

Redundant wrote:I'm planning on being a mathematician, so I'm detail oriented in some ways. Really only the ways that have to do with math.

i am extremely NOT detail oriented and this turned me away from trying to become a mathematician ... at least in physics if you claim something reasonable and provide a couple hand waving arguments people will usually leave you alone.
So a math/physic joke :

Mathematician: 3 is a prime, 5 is a prime, 7 is a prime, and by induction - every odd integer higher than 2 is a prime.
Physicist: 3 is a prime, 5 is a prime, 7 is a prime, 9 is an experimental error, 11 is a prime,...
Engineer: 3 is a prime, 5 is a prime, 7 is a prime, 9 is a prime, 11 is a prime,...
Programmer: 3 is a prime, 5 is a prime, 7 is a prime, 7 is a prime, 7 is a prime,...



And i totally suck at go, to stay on topic.

If that's the case, I'll never really be a good Go player. I have ADHD and that makes things like organization and concentration really hard for me for long periods of time.

That's not to say I can't organize or can't concentrate. I just have to have the right mindset to do it. Any other time and I can't.

So as for being detail oriented, I can't really say. I have my moments, but they're rare.

I think there's too much focus in general (not necessarily on this forum) in being 'this' kind of person or 'that' kind of person.

In most areas of life, including Go, you need to be able to focus on things at different levels. For example in Go, there are your local tactics and your overall strategy (yes, a huge oversimplification of the game ).

You might have a really powerful local tactical play, but if it doesn't support the overall strategy, it's useless. Likewise, to plan your strategy properly, you need to grasp details about the strengths and weaknesses of groups and the various tactics available to choose from.

What I'm basically saying is that tactics inform strategy and strategy informs tactics. The two are inseparable, but strategy always trumps tactics. I think this is one of the important things that Go can teach people.

<rant>From my own experience, it's an understanding that is severely lacking in the workforce. I meet people all the time who say 'I'm a details person' or 'I'm a big picture person, I don't do detail' - in other words... 'I have no idea what's really going on'. What's more, people love to apply these random labels to other people.</rant>

I've noticed that the most effective and successful people tend to do both. Just like a good Go player. You don't need to know every detail to the nth degree, but I think you do need to know enough to understand how it affects what you're doing.

Regarding noticing punctuation and other things, it's a trade-off depending on how much time you have and how important it is. There's a things called the ETTO principle (efficiency thoroughness trade off) which is partly about that. Once again this also applies to Go.