Life In 19x19

I thought we are smart guys and girls. Then why didn't we solve the neutrino problem yet? It is detected to have surpassed the absolute speed limit. This should be impossible according to Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity.

Here is my naive theory. I think that in this speed experiment there are at least 3 events. The departure, the arrival and one synchronisation event. We can consider the experiment as a verification of the triangulation laws in space time. The impossible speed can also be interpreted as a falsification of these triangulation theorems. That might mean that space time is curved different than derived from Einstein General Theory of Relativity. The General Theory is much les sacral than the Special Theory and much less, more indirectly verified. It is not fully compatible with Quantum Mechanics, another milestone of Physics. Maybe GT fails with particles traveling through dense matter because there are some unknown gravitational effects. After all I don't know of experiments verifying the space time triangulation theorems in curved space time that involve massy particles travelling through dense matter.

For the Dutch:
http://foksuk.nl/nl?cm=79&ctime=1316728800&cid=5684
and
http://foksuk.nl/nl?cm=79&ctime=1316815200

Here's my theory: if those physicists played go, they would be bad at counting.

It looks like Fermilab is picking up the gauntlet and will re-run the experiments this year.

Having spent a good part of my life as a physicist, I looked at these experiments with care and a critical eye. I was in awe of the possibilities that this discovery could unfold...and then I saw that the measurements were made by Italians... when has an Italian done anything other than exaggerate how fast his car or sub-atomic particles goes...

"We don't serve faster than light particles in here" said the bartender.
A neutrino walks into a bar.

Best wishes.

It's a very interesting result. I wondered initially if Mach's principle was relevant to the science

cyclops wrote:I thought we are smart guys and girls. Then why didn't we solve the neutrino problem yet? It is detected to have surpassed the absolute speed limit. This should be impossible according to Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity.

Here is my naive theory. I think that in this speed experiment there are at least 3 events. The departure, the arrival and one synchronisation event. We can consider the experiment as a verification of the triangulation laws in space time. The impossible speed can also be interpreted as a falsification of these triangulation theorems. That might mean that space time is curved different than derived from Einstein General Theory of Relativity. The General Theory is much les sacral than the Special Theory and much less, more indirectly verified. It is not fully compatible with Quantum Mechanics, another milestone of Physics. Maybe GT fails with particles traveling through dense matter because there are some unknown gravitational effects. After all I don't know of experiments verifying the space time triangulation theorems in curved space time that involve massy particles travelling through dense matter.

hyperpape wrote:http://xkcd.com/955/

So, 200 dollars says this may be an inaccurate result...

BobC wrote:when has an Italian done anything other than exaggerate how fast his car or sub-atomic particles goes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrico_Fermi

EdLee wrote:

BobC wrote:when has an Italian done anything other than exaggerate how fast his car or sub-atomic particles goes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrico_Fermi

I think you missed the joke here, Ed. You see, the wogs start at Calais, so Italians are really quite funny.

IF confirmed, this is huge. One of the articles said something about an energy pulse out in front of the neutrinos activating the sensors before the particle ever got there. Also, the lab isn't claiming they discovered anything yet, they've asked Fermilab and a lab in Tokyo if they would confirm the results.

In 2007, though, Fermilab apparently saw hints of neutrinos traveling faster than the speed of light, but the margin of error kind of killed the whole idea.

I personally think that the experiment is correct. Einstein was a genius, but not even he could have predicted this.

I think the discrepancy almost certainly is not caused by the neutrinos going faster than light, definitely not by a percentage. There was a supernova observed a few years ago. If neutrinos go faster than light by the percent claimed, they would have arrived ~4 years before the light. Instead, they arrived 3 hours before the light, which is the amount of time it was expected for the light to take to get through the outer layers of the star. The new scientist article goes into more detail.

daniel_the_smith wrote:If neutrinos go faster than light by the percent claimed, they would have arrived ~4 years before the light. Instead, they arrived 3 hours before the light, which is the amount of time it was expected for the light to take to get through the outer layers of the star. The new scientist article goes into more detail.

I don't think anyone is claiming that all neutrinos travel faster than light, though... the most that this experiment could possibly show is that some do.

CSamurai wrote:

hyperpape wrote:http://xkcd.com/955/

So, 200 dollars says this may be an inaccurate result...

What, are you expecting OPERA to retract? Or just that Fermilab and JParc won't be able to replicate the experiment?

jts wrote:

daniel_the_smith wrote:If neutrinos go faster than light by the percent claimed, they would have arrived ~4 years before the light. Instead, they arrived 3 hours before the light, which is the amount of time it was expected for the light to take to get through the outer layers of the star. The new scientist article goes into more detail.

I don't think anyone is claiming that all neutrinos travel faster than light, though... the most that this experiment could possibly show is that some do.

CSamurai wrote:

hyperpape wrote:http://xkcd.com/955/

So, 200 dollars says this may be an inaccurate result...

What, are you expecting OPERA to retract? Or just that Fermilab and JParc won't be able to replicate the experiment?

I'm expecting this to be an explanable result which does not obviate all of physics. What that explanation is, I do not know. I lack [edit] the hard science background [/edit] to truly analyze the study. But I feel pretty confident that the science behind my stuff will not fail to work tomorrow.