Life In 19x19

Hello

Imagine your opponent captured a lot of your stones and you have already placed the remaining on the board.
There is still room to play but you don't have more stones.

In theory the problem is easy: You have infinite stones.

In practice you usually exchange prisoners. While there might not be enough prisoners one one side, the game should be decided at that point. So that problem doesn't turn up in practice.

Li Kao wrote:In theory the problem is easy: You have infinite stones.

In practice you usually exchange prisoners. While there might not be enough prisoners one one side, the game should be decided at that point. So that problem doesn't turn up in practice.

It did! I run out of stones in one of my games, even after exchanging prisoners. I had to borrow stones from my neighbour player. Not to mention that we were in byo-yomi at that late stage of the game.

entropi, you already give the solution

If there are not enough stones, just pause the clock and pick up a couple of stones from your neighbour or from wherever.

180 stones each should be enough for anybody

Well if you play with progressive byo-yomi and get into it early in the game, there can be a point when there are not enough stones for the next cycle.

Non-Ing Rules: The number of stones is arbitrarily great.

Ing-Rules: It is undefined (what happens if all 180 stones of a player are on the board).

RobertJasiek wrote:Ing-Rules: It is undefined (what happens if all 180 stones of a player are on the board).

then maybe he should pass -- since it obviously means his opponent must have had many many captures and is now way behind; otherwise if both players had 180 stones on the board, there would only be one point on the boar left to play

xed_over wrote:

RobertJasiek wrote:Ing-Rules: It is undefined (what happens if all 180 stones of a player are on the board).

then maybe he should pass -- since it obviously means his opponent must have had many many captures and is now way behind; otherwise if both players had 180 stones on the board, there would only be one point on the boar left to play

Not necessarily. If both sides had many dead stones, but only those of one side were taken off the board, the other side might have 180 stones on the board, while still being behind.

Li Kao wrote:

xed_over wrote:

RobertJasiek wrote:Ing-Rules: It is undefined (what happens if all 180 stones of a player are on the board).

then maybe he should pass -- since it obviously means his opponent must have had many many captures and is now way behind; otherwise if both players had 180 stones on the board, there would only be one point on the boar left to play

Not necessarily. If both sides had many dead stones, but only those of one side were taken off the board, the other side might have 180 stones on the board, while still being behind.

not possible

180 is half the board (Ing rules are area counting). No way to have more than half the board and be behind.

xed_over wrote:

Li Kao wrote:

xed_over wrote:then maybe he should pass -- since it obviously means his opponent must have had many many captures and is now way behind; otherwise if both players had 180 stones on the board, there would only be one point on the boar left to play

Not necessarily. If both sides had many dead stones, but only those of one side were taken off the board, the other side might have 180 stones on the board, while still being behind.

not possible

180 is half the board (Ing rules are area counting). No way to have more than half the board and be behind.

Meh, I've lost groups bigger than that.

xed_over wrote:

Li Kao wrote:

xed_over wrote:then maybe he should pass -- since it obviously means his opponent must have had many many captures and is now way behind; otherwise if both players had 180 stones on the board, there would only be one point on the boar left to play

Not necessarily. If both sides had many dead stones, but only those of one side were taken off the board, the other side might have 180 stones on the board, while still being behind.

not possible

180 is half the board (Ing rules are area counting). No way to have more than half the board and be behind.

Having 180 living stones wins you the game, yes. But if many of those stones are dead, but still on the board, you can be behind.

Li Kao wrote:Having 180 living stones wins you the game, yes. But if many of those stones are dead, but still on the board, you can be behind.

This is what we're not sure about. If one player has played 180 stones which are still on the board, the other player also has played 180 stones that were not in kos. So the only remaining empty points on the board are the spaces made by a capture of some of the second player's stones. But that implies that whichever of the second player's 180 plays are still on the board, they have no eyes.

Can you come up with a board where black has 180 stones on the board, white has 180 stones on the board minus whatever captures black has made, it's black to move, and black has not just won an overwhelming victory?

xed_over wrote:180 is half the board (Ing rules are area counting). No way to have more than half the board and be behind.

Black needs 185 points to win because of komi.

If you have played 180 stones and your opponent has played 180 stones and no one has won the game you're doing it wrong. Start over and concentrate on making territory this time, not capturing stones. This ain't checkers.