Life In 19x19

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 2:11 am**

The following sequence arises from the main variation of the 3-3 invasion inside the 4-4 hoshi stone.

After black 1, if white ignores by playing 2, what is the best sequence of play locally for black?

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 2:14 am**

tenuki!
you can not kill them so why bother playing 1?
if you spend 1 more move then you are really in trouble..so i suggest you tenuki now.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 2:20 am**

Well I can guarantee you that the White corner can't be killed. The best for Black is simply the T14-T16 exchange, but this is just small endgame.

BUT...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X O O . . | $$ . . . X . X O . . | $$ . . . . . X O . . | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X X B | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

This is a different story. If Black has T13 and it's his turn, then White's corner can be killed.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 7:20 am**

The original question is whether the 3-3 invasion can be killed. The answer is yes, as long as there is sufficient outside thickness. Black must chase white out into the middle with a move at S16. But this is risky unless black is absolutely certain that white cannot live by escaping.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 7:52 am**

The turning at :b1:

is not sente against the corner. This is actually the reason that White adds another crawl on the second line.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 8:36 am**

Araban wrote:Well I can guarantee you that the White corner can't be killed. The best for Black is simply the T14-T16 exchange, but this is just small endgame.

BUT...

$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . X . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X X B |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X O O . . | $$ . . . X . X O . . | $$ . . . . . X O . . | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X X B | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

This is a different story. If Black has T13 and it's his turn, then White's corner can be killed.

can you show me how you can kill this group?

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 8:46 am**

Magicwand wrote:
Araban wrote:Well I can guarantee you that the White corner can't be killed. The best for Black is simply the T14-T16 exchange, but this is just small endgame.

BUT...

$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . X . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X X B |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X O O . . | $$ . . . X . X O . . | $$ . . . . . X O . . | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X X B | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

This is a different story. If Black has T13 and it's his turn, then White's corner can be killed.

can you show me how you can kill this group?

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 9:33 am**

Araban wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
Araban wrote:Well I can guarantee you that the White corner can't be killed. The best for Black is simply the T14-T16 exchange, but this is just small endgame.

BUT...

$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . X . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X X B |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X O O . . | $$ . . . X . X O . . | $$ . . . . . X O . . | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X X B | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

This is a different story. If Black has T13 and it's his turn, then White's corner can be killed.

can you show me how you can kill this group?

$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . 3 |
$$ . . . X . X O 2 . |
$$ . . . . . X O 1 4 |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . . X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X O O . 3 | $$ . . . X . X O 2 . | $$ . . . . . X O 1 4 | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X O 5 | $$ . . . . . . X X X | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 10:13 am**

Magicwand wrote:
really? i belive you are wrong on this. let me know if i missed something.
$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O 4 3 |
$$ . . . X . X O . 6 |
$$ . . . . . X O 1 2 |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . . X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X O O 4 3 | $$ . . . X . X O . 6 | $$ . . . . . X O 1 2 | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X O 5 | $$ . . . . . . X X X | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 10:34 am**

Magicwand wrote:
really? i belive you are wrong on this. let me know if i missed something.
$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O 4 3 |
$$ . . . X . X O . 6 |
$$ . . . . . X O 1 2 |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . . X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X O O 4 3 | $$ . . . X . X O . 6 | $$ . . . . . X O 1 2 | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X O 5 | $$ . . . . . . X X X | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

oren wrote:
Black at T19 next if I'm not mistaken

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 11:01 am**

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 11:41 am**

Thanks, Darrell. Should have seen that.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 2:03 pm**

Magicwand wrote:
really? i belive you are wrong on this. let me know if i missed something.
$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O 4 3 |
$$ . . . X . X O . 6 |
$$ . . . . . X O 1 2 |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . . X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X O O 4 3 | $$ . . . X . X O . 6 | $$ . . . . . X O 1 2 | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X O 5 | $$ . . . . . . X X X | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

edit: amnal got it as well.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 2:15 pm**

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2010 4:09 pm**

Araban wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
really? i belive you are wrong on this. let me know if i missed something.
$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O 4 3 |
$$ . . . X . X O . 6 |
$$ . . . . . X O 1 2 |
$$ . . . . . . X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . . X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . X O O 4 3 | $$ . . . X . X O . 6 | $$ . . . . . X O 1 2 | $$ . . . . . . X O . | $$ . . . . . . X O 5 | $$ . . . . . . X X X | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Read your message in class, so...

edit: amnal got it as well.

thank you very much..

i just noticed something funny about your note.
your handwriting is same as mine.
i thought i was looking at my notes from college.

did you notice that all mathmaticians have bad handwriting and notes?

Life In 19x19

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Re: can you kill this 3-3 invasion?

Re: can you kill this 3-3 invasion?

Re: can you kill this 3-3 invasion?

Re: can you kill this 3-3 invasion?

Re: can you kill this 3-3 invasion?

Re: can you kill this 3-3 invasion?

Re: can you kill this 3-3 invasion?

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Re: can you kill this 3-3 invasion?