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Redstone problem 1

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Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:59 am
by Bill Spight
Redstone is a form of no pass go. All captures are made with red stones, which are immortal. A player may capture stones of either player, or both. If your last stone remaining on the board has been captured, and it is your turn, you lose.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . . . |
$$ | O . X . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O . . |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | . O O . X . . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Enjoy!

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:28 am
by MarkSteere
Looks like a good starting point for me. Thanks Bill.

Image

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:13 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . 1 . |
$$ | O W X 8 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 6 |
$$ | 3 O X X X X X |
$$ | 2 O O 4 X 7 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 4 O 6 |
$$ | O C 1 W O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | O O X X X X X |
$$ | X O O X X O B |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O B |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | B O O O O O O |
$$ | O C 2 C O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | O O X X X X X |
$$ | X O O X X 1 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X . C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 7 2 . |
$$ | O W X 8 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 6 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O 4 X 3 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | 6 O O O O X W |
$$ | O C W 1 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O B |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O B |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | O O O O O 2 C |
$$ | O C C 4 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | B O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 1 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X 3 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 6 2 W |
$$ | O W X 8 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 4 5 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O 3 X . . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | 8 O O O 1 4 C |
$$ | O C 6 3 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 2 5 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 7 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | O O O O 2 C C |
$$ | O C C 4 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | 5 O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 1 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X 3 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 6 2 . |
$$ | O 8 X 9 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 4 5 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O 3 X 7 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | 4 O O O X X . |
$$ | O 2 1 C O O O |
$$ | O O O O O X O |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X O 3 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | O O O O 3 6 2 |
$$ | O C 4 C O O O |
$$ | O O O O O X O |
$$ | 8 O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X 5 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X 7 X X O 1 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | O O O O 1 C C |
$$ | O C O C O O O |
$$ | O O O O O X O |
$$ | O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X B C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X B X X . C |
$$ ---------------[/go]



I'm missing something ...

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:56 pm
by Bill Spight
topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . 1 . |
$$ | O W X 8 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 6 |
$$ | 3 O X X X X X |
$$ | 2 O O 4 X 7 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 4 O 6 |
$$ | O C 1 W O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | O O X X X X X |
$$ | X O O X X O B |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O B |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | B O O O O O O |
$$ | O C 2 C O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | O O X X X X X |
$$ | X O O X X 1 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X . C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 7 2 . |
$$ | O W X 8 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 6 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O 4 X 3 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | 6 O O O O X W |
$$ | O C W 1 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O B |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O B |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | O O O O O 2 C |
$$ | O C C 4 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | B O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 1 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X 3 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 6 2 W |
$$ | O W X 8 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 4 5 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O 3 X . . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | 8 O O O 1 4 C |
$$ | O C 6 3 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 2 5 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 7 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | O O O O 2 C C |
$$ | O C C 4 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | 5 O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 1 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X 3 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]



I'm missing something ...


I am impressed. :)

Here is one thing you are missing.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . X . |
$$ | O . X . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O a |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O b |
$$ ---------------[/go]


In this and similar positions, "a" and "b" are miai. :)

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:06 pm
by topazg
@Bill

How did you get that position? You seem to have missed a Black move?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Black :b6: ?
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . 2 . |
$$ | O . X . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 4 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O 3 X X 7 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Continuation?:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 6 2 9 |
$$ | O . X 8 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 4 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O 3 X X 7 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm10
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 1 6 C |
$$ | O 2 4 3 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O 5 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 7 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play and win?
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . C C |
$$ | O C C . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X . C |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:23 pm
by topazg
Hold on, you can suicide ....:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 6 2 0 |
$$ | O . X 8 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 4 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O 3 X X 7 9 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 3 4 C |
$$ | O 2 X X O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 1 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm15
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 5 C C |
$$ | O C 3 1 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 2 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | 7 X 6 X X 4 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


EDIT: Bingo??

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:26 pm
by Bill Spight
topazg wrote:@Bill

How did you get that position? You seem to have missed a Black move?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Black :b6: ?
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . 2 . |
$$ | O . X . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 4 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O 3 X X 7 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Continuation?:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 6 2 9 |
$$ | O . X 8 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 4 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O 3 X X 7 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm10
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 1 6 C |
$$ | O 2 4 3 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O 5 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 7 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play and win?
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . C C |
$$ | O C C . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X . C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . 2 . |
$$ | O . X . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 6 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O 4 X 3 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


That's how I got here. :)

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:30 pm
by Bill Spight
topazg wrote:Hold on, you can suicide ....:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 6 2 0 |
$$ | O . X 8 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 4 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O 3 X X 7 9 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 3 4 C |
$$ | O 2 X X O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 1 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm15
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 5 C C |
$$ | O C 3 1 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 2 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | 7 X 6 X X 4 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


EDIT: Bingo??


"Suicide is painless" -- sometimes. ;)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . 2 . |
$$ | O . X . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 5 4 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O 3 X X . . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 6 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


No bingo yet. :)

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:41 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 2 X 5 |
$$ | O 6 X 4 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O 3 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 1 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | 5 O O O 3 4 C |
$$ | O C 2 1 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | 7 O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 6 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X 8 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | O O O O . C C |
$$ | O C C . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X X C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X X C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Nope ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W :w1: @ :b6:
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 6 X 5 |
$$ | O 4 X 2 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O 3 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O X 4 C |
$$ | O C 3 2 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 1 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . C C |
$$ | O C C . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X . C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Man, this is hard ...


EDIT: Ignore top sequence, will need redoing as I had a brainfart

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:50 pm
by Bill Spight
topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 2 X 5 |
$$ | O 6 X 4 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O 3 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 1 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | 5 O O O 3 4 C |
$$ | O C 2 1 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | 7 O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 6 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X 8 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | O O O O . C C |
$$ | O C C . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X X C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X X C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Nope ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W :w1: @ :b6:
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 6 X 5 |
$$ | O 4 X 2 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O 3 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O X 4 C |
$$ | O C 3 2 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 1 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . C C |
$$ | O C C . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X . C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Man, this is hard ...


EDIT: Ignore top sequence, will need redoing as I had a brainfart


Oh, you realized no single stone sacrifices are allowed?

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:58 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 2 X 5 |
$$ | O 6 X 4 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O 3 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 1 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 2 3 C |
$$ | O C 5 1 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 4 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X 6 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 1 C C |
$$ | O C O O O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X X C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | 3 X 2 X X X C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


But doesn't that mean that ... this is better for White?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 4 2 0 |
$$ | O 8 X 6 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O . . |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O 9 X 3 5 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 7 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 2 5 C |
$$ | O C 6 4 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 1 3 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X . C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm17 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | 5 O O O 1 C C |
$$ | O C C 3 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O O |
$$ | 6 O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X 2 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X 4 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Apparently not ... but why not ? Is :b4: in the last diagram a stronger resistance than playing at :w9:, as in effect, Black's taking a White-only liberty rather than a shared liberty?


@Mark: Don't say I'm not giving this variant a fair chance :D

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:06 pm
by Bill Spight
topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 2 X 5 |
$$ | O 6 X 4 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X O 3 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 1 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 2 3 C |
$$ | O C 5 1 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X 4 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X 6 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 1 C C |
$$ | O C O O O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O X |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O X X X C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | 3 X 2 X X X C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


But doesn't that mean that ... this is better for White?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 4 2 0 |
$$ | O 8 X 6 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O . . |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O 9 X 3 5 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 7 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 2 5 C |
$$ | O C 6 4 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 1 3 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X . C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm17 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | 5 O O O 1 C C |
$$ | O C C 3 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O O O |
$$ | 6 O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X 2 C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X 4 C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Apparently not ... but why not ? Is :b4: in the last diagram a stronger resistance than playing at :w9:, as in effect, Black's taking a White-only liberty rather than a shared liberty?


@Mark: Don't say I'm not giving this variant a fair chance :D


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O . 2 . |
$$ | O . X . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O a a |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O a X 3 a |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O a |
$$ ---------------[/go]


After :w3: there are an odd number of dame ("a") and Black should play one. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 1 . C |
$$ | O C 2 3 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 4 5 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X . C |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X . C |
$$ ---------------[/go]


In this position :w14: and :b15: are miai. Black must fill first and White wins. :)


Edit: Added variation after the next note was posted.

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:07 pm
by topazg
@Bill:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 4 2 . |
$$ | O . X . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O . . |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O . X 3 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


In which case, what _should_ White's resistance be to :b4: here? I ask because if Black wins with :b4:, I can't see why he'd want to take a dame instead, which I read as losing for Black :-?

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:15 pm
by MarkSteere
topazg wrote:@Mark: Don't say I'm not giving this variant a fair chance :D

I totally appreciate the effort you're putting into this, Topazg. I fully expected Redstone to be ignored, but I'm glad it wasn't.

I'm watching the discussion with intense interest. This is a learning experience for me, and possibly a gateway to learning to play Go :)

Re: Redstone problem 1

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:20 pm
by Bill Spight
topazg wrote:@Bill:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 4 2 . |
$$ | O . X . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O . . |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O . X 3 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


In which case, what _should_ White's resistance be to :b4: here? I ask because if Black wins with :b4:, I can't see why he'd want to take a dame instead, which I read as losing for Black :-?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 4 2 6 |
$$ | O . X . O O O |
$$ | O O O O O . . |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | 1 O O 5 X 3 . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


After :w5: there are four dame, all miai. So we can play out the top, starting with :b6:.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1 White to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O 7 . C |
$$ | O 8 X 9 O O O |
$$ | O O O O O . . |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X O . |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm10
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O O O O . C |
$$ | O 1 2 C O O O |
$$ | O O O O O 3 4 |
$$ | . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X O 5 |
$$ | X X X X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O 6 |
$$ ---------------[/go]


After :w11: the dame are shared and Black to play loses. :)


I added a variation to #12. :)
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