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Endgame territory question
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:51 pm
by Sneegurd
Hi,
why is the top right area lost for black? With black j13, can't black win the territory later - and make prisoners? I'm completely confused about this. Also, if there was black j13, why is this whites territory? Probably a simple rules question.
If I may ask you to have a look? See attached, or this:
http://www.dragongoserver.net/game.php?gid=728335Unfortunately I cannot embed, because it's 13x13.
Thx.
Re: Endgame territory question
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:21 pm
by illluck
J13 K13, black is dead.
Even if J13 worked, you would still need to play it if you want the points.
Re: Endgame territory question
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:22 pm
by zarathustra
With black j13, can't black win the territory later - and make prisoners?
If you thought that then you should have played it out. But, I do not believe black could have won that corner without a lot of help from white.
If black plays j13 his group has three liberties and whites corner group has four. Even if white gave black two moves in a row white should still win that corner.
Re: Endgame territory question
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:13 pm
by Bill Spight
(;ST[2]GM[1]CA[ISO8859-1]SZ[13]FF[4]AP[GOWrite:2.2.21]PC[Dragon Go Server\: http\://www.dragongoserver.net/]PM[0]WR[24 kyu]FG[259:]HA[3]DT[2012-04-19,2012-05-07]PL[W]AB[jj][jd][dj]PW[Stella (Stella8)]KM[6.0]PB[Lentic Catachresis (panthen)]RU[Japanese]GN[Stella8-panthen-728335-20120507]BR[30 kyu]RE[W+13]GC[Game ID\: 728335, rated]OT[Japanese byoyomi\: 90 days + 1 day per move and 10 extra periods]
;MN[1]PM[2]W[dd]
;B[ee]
;W[ed]
;B[fd]
;W[fc]
;B[ik]
;W[jc]
;B[ke]
;W[kc]
;B[cg]
;W[cf]
;B[dg]
;W[df]
;B[kh]
;W[cj]
;B[ck]
;W[ef]
;B[dh]
;W[fe]
;B[dk]
;W[gg]
;B[gd]
;W[ge]
;B[id]
;W[hd]
;B[ki]
;W[ig]
;B[gj]
;W[gi]
;B[hj]
;W[hi]
;B[ii]
;W[ih]
;B[jh]
;W[jf]
;B[fi]
;W[fh]
;B[di]
;W[bg]
;B[bj]
;W[bi]
;B[kf]
;W[je]
;B[hh]
;W[gh]
;B[ei]
;W[eg]
;B[hf]
;W[he]
;B[ie]
;W[if]
;B[jg]
;W[hg]
;B[ic]
;W[kd]
;B[gc]
;W[fb]
;B[ci]
;W[bh]
;B[le]
;W[hc]
;B[ai]
;W[bf]
;B[md]
;W[lc]
;B[ld]
;W[mc]
;B[aj]
;W[ah]
;B[ib]
;W[jb]
;B[ia]
;W[hb]
;B[ja]
;W[ka]
;B[la]
;W[ha]
)
See move 72. Black cannot win the fight and the Black stones are dead.
¿Es claro?

Re: Endgame territory question
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:53 am
by Sneegurd
Ugh! What an easy task, thanks guys! I didn't see the 5 black stones can be cought. I was somewhat overfocused on those 5 dead stones plus l9 m9 n9 n10, which surround the white stones.