Would you be so kind to explain to me what Black should do in the following case:
$$Wc What should Black do in this case? $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . 1 . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . X O . . | $$ | X . . . . X O . . | $$ | X X X X X X O . . | $$ | O X O O O O O . . | $$ | O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------
[go]$$Wc What should Black do in this case? $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . 1 . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . X O . . | $$ | X . . . . X O . . | $$ | X X X X X X O . . | $$ | O X O O O O O . . | $$ | O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------[/go]
Thanks.
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:36 am
by EdLee
SuprunP, B should count.
Even with only 0.5 komi, W is winning (W 28.5 vs. B 25). B should resign.
If we change the board and look at only the local upper left corner:
$$W $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . X O . . $$ | . . . . . X X O . . $$ | . . 1 . . X O . . . $$ | . . X . . X O . . . $$ | X . . . . X O . . . $$ | X X X X X X O . . . $$ | O X O O O O O . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$W $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . X O . . $$ | . . . . . X X O . . $$ | . . 1 . . X O . . . $$ | . . X . . X O . . . $$ | X . . . . X O . . . $$ | X X X X X X O . . . $$ | O X O O O O O . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Then B should read to see if W has any chance to live, then decide what to do. Do you think W can live?
Re: What should Black do in this case?
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:30 am
by emeraldemon
B7 looks fine to me. Black may even be able to ignore this move, but I'm too lazy to read it out
Re: What should Black do in this case?
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:35 am
by SuprunP
Thank you EdLee and emeraldemon!
That's what I've fairly unsuccessfully tried to convey - 'What is the best tactic to tackle White's invasion in that corner?'
I've tried several variants (although I've got a sneaking feeling they have nothing to do whatsoever with real games' variations) and, from my beginner's point of view, I don't think White has any chance to survive. However, I'm still not sure which moves are the best in this particular situation.
Thanks.
Re: What should Black do in this case?
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:50 am
by emeraldemon
$$Wcm1 white is dead $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . 2 . X X O . | $$ | . 1 O . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . X O . . | $$ | X . . . . X O . . | $$ | X X X X X X O . . | $$ | O X O O O O O . . | $$ | O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 white is dead $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . 2 . X X O . | $$ | . 1 O . . X O . . | $$ | . . X . . X O . . | $$ | X . . . . X O . . | $$ | X X X X X X O . . | $$ | O X O O O O O . . | $$ | O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------[/go]
$$Wcm1 Also dead $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . X O . | $$ | 5 3 7 1 8 X X O . | $$ | . 2 O 6 . X O . . | $$ | . 4 X . . X O . . | $$ | X . . . . X O . . | $$ | X X X X X X O . . | $$ | O X O O O O O . . | $$ | O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 Also dead $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . X O . | $$ | 5 3 7 1 8 X X O . | $$ | . 2 O 6 . X O . . | $$ | . 4 X . . X O . . | $$ | X . . . . X O . . | $$ | X X X X X X O . . | $$ | O X O O O O O . . | $$ | O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------[/go]
can you come up with a variation where it looks like white lives, with white playing first?
Re: What should Black do in this case?
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:45 pm
by SuprunP
can you come up with a variation where it looks like white lives, with white playing first?
If you were asking me, emeraldemon, I think that would be too much of a challenge for me. If you couldn't come up with such a variation I'm certainly not going to be better off.
Re:
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:50 pm
by HKA
EdLee wrote:SuprunP, B should count.
Even with only 0.5 komi, W is winning (W 28.5 vs. B 25). B should resign.
If we change the board and look at only the local upper left corner:
$$W $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . X O . . $$ | . . . . . X X O . . $$ | . . 1 . . X O . . . $$ | . . X . . X O . . . $$ | X . . . . X O . . . $$ | X X X X X X O . . . $$ | O X O O O O O . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . .
[go]$$W $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . X O . . $$ | . . . . . X X O . . $$ | . . 1 . . X O . . . $$ | . . X . . X O . . . $$ | X . . . . X O . . . $$ | X X X X X X O . . . $$ | O X O O O O O . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Then B should read to see if W has any chance to live, then decide what to do. Do you think W can live?
Just to be careful[Hide]Dont want any trouble[Hide] But it might be worth pointing out that white is the one who should learn to count, he has made an invasion that cannot work in a game he has already won
[/Hide][/Hide]
Re: What should Black do in this case?
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:08 pm
by Buri
Greetings, I'm just abeginner so take it with a pinch of salt , but that seems to be one of those pointless moves that mars the end of lower level games. b7 seems good if one follows the basic idea of driving the stone towards your thickness rather than letting it set up a miserable mess in the corner. Cheers, Buri
