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Tsumego from a game

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=6378

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Tsumego from a game

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:01 pm
by jts
Black to move. Is the group on the bottom alive?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . X O O O . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:10 pm
by Dusk Eagle
:lol: You're evil.

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:36 pm
by Boidhre
I can't find a way for black to live, I'm a liberty short in the capturing race on the left where I'm probably missing something. Thanks for a fun problem to play with though. :)

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:56 pm
by speedchase
how does white kill :b1:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . X O O O . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 . . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:25 pm
by Boidhre
I couldn't find a good answer to:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . X O O O . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 2 . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'd be delighted to be shown a refutation.

Edit:

I think I see one:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . X O O O . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 2 . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Never mind:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . X O O O . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X 7 X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 2 6 X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 3 4 0 . 9 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . X O O O . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . 2 X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . 1 X O . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:35 pm
by speedchase
Boidhre wrote:
Edit:

I think I see one:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . X O O O . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 2 . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

that is what I was thinking

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:39 pm
by Boidhre
See my edit.

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:42 pm
by speedchase
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . X O O O . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X 7 X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 2 6 X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 3 4 9 . . 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:47 pm
by Boidhre
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . X O O O . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X 7 X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 2 6 X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 3 4 9 . . 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black lives?

Edit: I guess so. :)

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:53 pm
by speedchase
I think so. There are some interesting variations with the cut, and I can't read it completely but I don't see anyway for white to kill

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:46 am
by HermanHiddema
Looks like a difficult fight for both sides

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:59 am
by ez4u
@Herman - What happens if B cuts at H5 instead of L4 in yours?

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:40 am
by HermanHiddema
ez4u wrote:@Herman - What happens if B cuts at H5 instead of L4 in yours?
H6, then L4 if black extends and it doesn't look good?

But really, you would have to ask: Click to show

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:31 am
by ez4u
Ha! Ha! When you posted your variation I thought, "Wow! This is as bad as the 'Big Fight' game". But I never considered that it might actually be so. :blackeye:

@jts - You rat! :bow:

Re: Tsumego from a game

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:01 am
by speedchase
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . X O O O . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 3 2 X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black at least has this ko variation right? he also has the local threats on the outside
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