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An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:06 am
by Shaddy
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- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
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Suppose you're Black. How much komi would you pay to be able to play this brick as your first move?
(I had this idea at the last Congress - I found someone to play it out with me, and I wound up killing the brick.)
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:15 am
by Solomon
-6.5, you'd have to pay me to have that eyesore on the board.
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:16 am
by skydyr
I am far from an expert but I think your experience kind of highlights it... that brick looks pretty heavy, and I'm not sure the power in the corner is worth more than its liability.
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:23 am
by Shaddy
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:25 am
by Li Kao
Area or territory scoring? It's worth more with area scoring.
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:43 am
by shapenaji
20 with territory, 32 with area, not only does it have miai for extensions, but if they try to approach from either side you have massive endgame play
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:49 am
by Koosh
If I can play this brick as a first move, then I suppose I can play it anywhere on the board, right?
It reminds me of a Thwomp from Super Mario Brothers. It could be useful if carefully placed.
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:59 am
by Shaddy
My idea was to have it stuck in the corner.
@skydyr - it's a lot thicker than it looks (which is pretty thick, I guess). The guy with the brick played tenuki a lot of times before I was even able to get a ko.
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:22 pm
by cyclops
shapenaji wrote:20 with territory, 32 with area, not only does it have miai for extensions, but if they try to approach from either side you have massive endgame play
It seems logical that the difference between your numbers equals the number of black stones. Or does it imply that you are sure that black won't sacrify the lump?
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:24 pm
by shapenaji
cyclops wrote:shapenaji wrote:20 with territory, 32 with area, not only does it have miai for extensions, but if they try to approach from either side you have massive endgame play
It seems logical that the difference between your numbers equals the number of black stones. Or does it imply that you are sure that black won't sacrify the lump?
Black might sacrifice the lump, but if he does, he ought to get something bigger. It's too resilient to be a liability.
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:13 pm
by tchan001
Shaddy wrote:$$c
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Suppose you're Black. How much komi would you pay to be able to play this brick as your first move?
(I had this idea at the last Congress - I found someone to play it out with me, and I wound up killing the brick.)
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- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
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I'll play this brick as my reply
lol
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:19 am
by hyperpape
When y'all say 20, does that include standard komi, or is it on top of that?
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:55 am
by Tooveli
It's a very odd position to evaluate. My feeling is if komi <= 23.5 I take Black otherwise I take White.
Yes 23.6 is just too much..
I wouldn't be surprised if the 'correct' answer is anywhere between 13 - 33.
I also think the correct komi probably changes a little depending on the strength of the players.
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:58 am
by Shaddy
When I say 20, I'm including standard komi
Re: An extremely hypothetical question
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:59 am
by HermanHiddema
I would prefer black if white had less than 30 komi (with territory scoring).